We know music is pleasurable, the question is why? • Hacker News Board

Re: We know music is pleasurable, the question is why?

#161

Post by ConceptJunkie » Fri, Sep 07, 2018, 7:05 PM UTC

irrational wrote: post #61

munificent wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was riding with a new coworker to lunch. Trying to get to know him better, I asked what kind of music he likes. Music is such an important part of many people's life that this is often a good opener. He hesitated for a while and said, "I don't know... quiet I guess?" I think his response caused a full hard reboot of my cranial OS. It was the first time I'd ever met anyone whose relationship to music was so fundamen…

This is me. I can't understand why people want to listen to music in their cars when quiet is so much more pleasurable. Though, I also can't understand why people want to listen to music at all. It has no emotional response for me. I'm so glad to know I'm not the only one since it seems like everyone else likes music for some reason.

I feel sorry that you don't gain the joy and pleasure that I get from music, but on the other hand I'm guessing you also don't suffer from the utter distaste and even hatred of boring, repetitious pop music that you get exposed to when out in public.

Re: We know music is pleasurable, the question is why?

#162

Post by ConceptJunkie » Fri, Sep 07, 2018, 7:06 PM UTC

tmh88j wrote: post #124

garmaine wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Listening to silence is different from listening to music? They're both categories of "things you'd want to hear."

If you asked someone what their favorite kind of pizza is and they responded with "chocolate milkshake", you wouldn't be at a loss for words? They're both categories of food.

It's more like saying, "What kind of pizza do is your favorite?" and they respond, "No pizza." which is perhaps not quite the same as saying "I don't like pizza at all."

Re: We know music is pleasurable, the question is why?

#163

Post by ConceptJunkie » Fri, Sep 07, 2018, 7:09 PM UTC

gattr wrote: post #145

bane wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also a small percentage of people (maybe In some people who experience it, it can be an absolutely overwhelming experience -- like strapping your brain to wings made out of lightning bolts. 1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frisson 2 - http://theconversation.com/why-do-only-some-people-get-skin-...

Interesting to know what it's called, thanks. I have a few pieces of music that trigger this for me, up to shivers and tears in the eyes (though not at overwhelming/lightning-bolt levels.) On the other hand, I'm utterly unresponsive to poetry.

I get this, sometimes much stronger than others, even for the same music. I donate platelets at the Red Cross which takes a couple hours, so they provide DVD players and a selection of movies to choose from while you are hooked up to the apheresis machine.

I found they had a DVD of Yes' Symphonic tour from around 2001, and I felt like a real idiot because my eyes were seriously watering up during a lot of that concert. It's not crying, although it may look the same.

Re: We know music is pleasurable, the question is why?

#164

Post by sizzle » Fri, Sep 07, 2018, 8:06 PM UTC

tmh88j wrote: post #118

sizzle wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I enjoy music but I realizes that the ROI of listening to music is on uplifting my mood. I rather listen to a podcast or NPR now cause I get something to ponder on or form an opinion about on my commute. I rather listen to music socially with people in the car though. From the field of neuroscience, we know that music affects the brain like a drug of sorts. I believe Steven Pinker said in a book of his that music rel…

That's understandable, but he specifically asked what kind of music his coworker likes. If you asked someone what their favorite movie is and they brought up a completely different activity they enjoy to pass the time, like programming, you'd find their response more than odd, no?

My reply to what music do I like is usually... "it depends on my mood". I like many genres so I start listing some of them or ask the other person what they like and steer the conversation in music we have in common.

Re: We know music is pleasurable, the question is why?

#165

Post by sizzle » Fri, Sep 07, 2018, 8:11 PM UTC

bane wrote: post #114

sizzle wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does this compare to an orgasm?

It's a different kind of experience, but definitely clustered in the "feelings of intense pleasure" cluster. I'd say that musical frisson is much more of an emotionally driven feeling that encompasses a much larger part of the body. The intensity ranges all over the place from a small feeling of "nice!" to intense, almost physically disabling, feelings of absolute bliss that have left me weeping like I'd just experie…

Thanks for the thoughtful comment! I experienced a lesser version of this phenomenon relistening to some music I hadn't heard since undergrad with a good friend that passed away. It was like I was transported back to that time and had goosebumps cascading my entire body. It only happens when I haven't heard a track in a while and I can't force it. Music is truly a human experience.

Re: We know music is pleasurable, the question is why?

#166

Post by icebraining » Fri, Sep 07, 2018, 10:05 PM UTC

garmaine wrote: post #143

tmh88j wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you asked someone what their favorite kind of pizza is and they responded with "chocolate milkshake", you wouldn't be at a loss for words? They're both categories of food.

I think you're missing the point. To me music isn't qualitatively different to any other sound sequence, or lack of sound. "Silence" is something you can listen to, just as much as "running water", "conversational din", or "Beethoven's 5th". Yet because it is structured in the form of certain integer ratio harmonics, 95% of the population treats it as something categorically different. Objectively, that is what's wei…

If you abstract enough, everything is just the movements of particles; and yet, you can distinguish and categorize certain kinds of such movements, and music is no exception. It's no weirder than any of the categorizations you no doubt assume every day.

If for you, there's no value in that categorization, that's fine, of course.

Re: We know music is pleasurable, the question is why?

#167

Post by csihar » Fri, Sep 07, 2018, 10:23 PM UTC

throwaway8879 wrote: post #7

citation_please wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm, electronic genres are definitely clustered around 128, 140, and 170 (+/-2), and those are all reasonable heart rates when you're partying...But a "human heart beat" can be literally anything so I'm not convinced.

Perhaps they mean the average non-stressed, slightly relaxed rate of around 100 or so? I'm not convinced either, but it is interesting to think about. Tempo and rhythm/beat has such a profound effect on the emotional response to music.

Incidentally, 100 bpm is around the average tempo for reggae.

Re: We know music is pleasurable, the question is why?

#168

Post by yesenadam » Sat, Sep 08, 2018, 12:15 AM UTC

crazynick4 wrote: post #156

yesenadam wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

jazz is said to approximate the scales that could be built off the '7-limit' intervals, which explains its more dissonant nature (heavy use of tritone which has a ratio of 7:5 That all sounds pretty baseless to me. is said to ? By who? (Those people who find endless patterns in the measurements of the Egyptian pyramids, maybe.) I've never heard or read that. A tritone doesn't "have a ratio of 7:5", not in the equal t…

Quoting David Doty from Just Intonation Primer (highly recommended if you can find a copy): "7:4, 7:5, and 7:6 can be identified with the flatted seventh, fifth, and third beloved of blues and jazz musicians". He may not be the most well known person to write about music theory but his understanding of the fundamentals of music/tuning/harmony is solid. Anyway, it is fairly self evident that the blues scale would not…

Hi :-) Thanks. I'm no expert in rational temperaments, I just am objecting when you say things that don't sound true. Like "jazz is said to approximate the scales that could be built off the '7-limit' intervals, which explains its more dissonant nature". (that explains nothing) Or "The only way this would have musical significance.." (only ratios of small integers can 'have musical significance'?)

"look at the 7th and 5th notes in a harmonic series" - I played trombone for years. :-) The 7th is flat, sounds out of tune. (Yes I was mostly playing jazz)

I don't know why you think I'm writing from the point of view of equal temperament as opposed to harmonic series. But it does sound like you're writing from the point of view of a particular rational temperament - maybe because you just read that book. There are many, dozens or hundreds, of different rational tunings/temperaments/intonations, writing today 'from the point of view' of any one of them about music, as if that's what music 'really' is, would be arbitrary, silly.

Re: We know music is pleasurable, the question is why?

#169

Post by icebraining » Sat, Sep 08, 2018, 1:51 AM UTC

garmaine wrote: post #125

moyya wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just curious why you explicitly "hope there is no cure"? Seems like an odd wish. If music has little to no effect on you now, why would you even care? Furthermore if a "cure" did exist, what would be the downside of trying it?

I like who I am, and am perfectly happy the way I am. If you step back and look at it, letting vibrations in the air control your emotional state is kinda a scary proposition, no?

No, it's great, it's like having a cheap, legal, safe drug that can be used as a downer or upper, and more.

Re: We know music is pleasurable, the question is why?

#170

Post by tmh88j » Sat, Sep 08, 2018, 2:07 AM UTC

rimunroe wrote: post #137

tmh88j wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you step back and look at it, letting vibrations in the air control your emotional state is kinda a scary proposition, no? How is that different than letting reflections of light off of objects control your emotional state? Do you also have no emotional reaction to art, or even as simple as preferring a certain color?

I'm not them, and don't find that scary at all (speech certainly affects my emotional state!) but I don't have any color preference, or feel like I have anywhere near the emotional reaction to art that other people do.

Are you suggesting visuals of any kind do not create an emotional reaction for you? I'm not sure what the point of your comment is otherwise.

Would painting a room bright pink be no different to you than painting it black? Does looking at roadkill or a corpse feel absolutely no different to you than viewing something most would consider calming like a sunset, flowers or someone who you consider to be beautiful? If you do feel different, then yes, light reflecting off of objects does create an emotional reaction to you.