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My life with 12 programmers, 2 rooms and one 21st-century dream (2016)

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Re: My life with 12 programmers, 2 rooms and one 21st-century dream (2016)

#161

Post by nocman »

ajmurmann wrote: post #45
zahrc wrote: post #23

It's a weird story for me and I have absolutely no understanding for it. (no, I don't mean tolerance) I'm not from the US and am far from any startup experience, but I am a young programmer myself, without either good budget nor education. Programming is the love my life but I would never bear this situation at any cost for it. He states himself that programming was just "means to an end" for him. So why even bother?…

>He states himself that programming was just "means to an end" for him. So why even bother? Because you gotta pay the bills somehow. This is something you only ever hear from people in our profession and I think it sometimes leads to self-exploitation. Nobody would ever say "He states himself that driving the garbage truck was just "means to an end" for him. So why even bother?"

Actually it is not limited to our profession.

I have relatives in completely different (non-tech) jobs that would say of working a job just to pay the bills "what kind of way is that to live?". In fact they have said that of other family members from the previous generation, who stuck it out in a job they didn't particularly like so they could take care of their families.

A lot of people don't seem to value the personal sacrifice of others, even when that sacrifice is for a worthy cause (and taking care of your family most definitely is a worthy cause).

Sure, if you have a chance to get paid at least a sufficent amount of money to do something you like, or even love (if possible), then take it. But you shouldn't look down on others who choose to put up with a lot in order to provide for others. It's a noble thing to do, and it should be honored, not scoffed at.

Re: My life with 12 programmers, 2 rooms and one 21st-century dream (2016)

#162

Post by zzzzzzzza »

FLUX-YOU wrote: post #133
DoritoChef wrote: post #9

Posts like these really continue drive home the message of "Silicon Valley is just a shell of what it used to be. Only go there for the sake of relocation or with a job offer in hand." There's nothing left for the dreamers or hopefuls in SV who have nothing to run on but just that--hopes and dreams. It just makes so much more sense to take a pay cut and swing for the fences in Atlanta, Houston, Austin, or Phoenix. He…

The weather in Atlanta, Houston, Austin, and Phoenix is brutally hot and/or humid and shows no sign of getting a cooler average. It's difficult to do stuff outside when it's that hot, especially as you get older.

Austin is way nicer than Houston or Phoenix, not sure about Atlanta. Acutally Austin/San Antonio pretty much has the nicest weather in texas. I'm from fort worth and fort worth gets both hotter and colder than austin - climate wise it's the california of texas (austin also has comfortable levels of humidity unlike houston).

Re: My life with 12 programmers, 2 rooms and one 21st-century dream (2016)

#163

Post by volkl48 »

mylons wrote: post #49
DoritoChef wrote: post #9

Posts like these really continue drive home the message of "Silicon Valley is just a shell of what it used to be. Only go there for the sake of relocation or with a job offer in hand." There's nothing left for the dreamers or hopefuls in SV who have nothing to run on but just that--hopes and dreams. It just makes so much more sense to take a pay cut and swing for the fences in Atlanta, Houston, Austin, or Phoenix. He…

Boston isn't really cheaper than The Bay. Traffic is terrible, so commuting by car long distances is out, and living near your job is often just as expensive as The Bay.

Can't really agree with that. There's still quite a few sanely priced neighborhoods with good transit access, and without huge crime issues. (Ex: Malden)

Re: My life with 12 programmers, 2 rooms and one 21st-century dream (2016)

#164

Post by sokoloff »

kevinstubbs wrote: post #132
sokoloff wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think you wanted two “not”s in that comment (or else I don’t understand; please expound).

If you're not going to do something awesome why not work hard? Broken down: If you aren't going to do something awesome (like travel a lot) , [then] why not work hard [instead]?

Ah thank you. I was stuck on a tight linkage between awesomeness and work:

If you're going to do something awesome, why not work hard [to achieve great things]?

or

If you're not going to something awesome, why work hard [because what's the point if it's not awesome]?

Re: My life with 12 programmers, 2 rooms and one 21st-century dream (2016)

#165

Post by mmt »

gm-conspiracy wrote: post #115
j7ake wrote: post #95

Is this monthly rent what is expected or is this an outlier case?

From multiple recent cursory craigslist searches, it seems you can find a bedroom of your own in a shared apartment/house for $1200, but you would share a bathroom. For around $2000, you would share an apartment, but have your own bedroom and your own bathroom. For $3000 to $4000, you can have your own space and bathroom, but that would unlikely be more than 500sqft. All seem to want a security deposit equivalent to…

> All seem to want a security deposit equivalent to one month's rent.

Also, the California statutory limit on deposits is two months of rent, so, with a law-abiding landlord, that's an upper bound.

Re: My life with 12 programmers, 2 rooms and one 21st-century dream (2016)

#166

Post by sasaf5 »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #10
themoat wrote: post #2

I know the author wised up and moved on, but I would rather work construction for the rest of my life than be a programmer and live like this. I worked for a startup for a couple of years that really got it right. The CTO really wanted a certain lead developer as his first hire (they had previously worked together) and the lead dev said (paraphrased, of course) "Nope. Not interested in working more than 40 hours per…

It seems to me that the moral of the story is that the work is done by people, so taking care of your people actually matters. And it is basically contained in this line: That dev team has consistently deployed great feature after another at an incredible rate. I very much appreciate you leaving this comment.

Oh, the often neglected powers of rested brains!

Re: My life with 12 programmers, 2 rooms and one 21st-century dream (2016)

#167

Post by dhnsmakala »

ybtrewa wrote: post #37
dhnsmakala wrote: post #33

I call bushit on this story. This article is greatly exaggerated to grab your attention. $1.4k for a closet in an Airbnb with 13 people, where you don't get a key and have to sneak in? Heh. I have found a large room in a newer complex through a company pairing roommates in just a few days. It was $1800. Heck, you could pay $1k for a room in Berkely or Oakland and commute in by Bart.

Lol, your situation doesn't sound a whole lot better. I assume for $400 more he could have graduated to a full sized room.

1/2 roommates and private bath vs a dozen roommates and a closet...and we're talking about staying in SF here.

If I wanted to save money, I'd accept a half hour commute and get a room near a Bart station for half the cost.

This article is a total lie, unless these people are really bottom of the barrel idiots.

Re: My life with 12 programmers, 2 rooms and one 21st-century dream (2016)

#168

Post by DevKoala »

jen729w wrote: post #61
enraged_camel wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>That guy in the closet was probably stashing way North of $60k annually, not counting equity. Do this for 7-10 years and you can retire silver else and are probably in your early 30s. Retire with $750k (assuming stock market gains over that 10 years)? Man, I don’t know many people who can do that, at least not in the US. Don’t get me wrong, it gets you out of the “work or starve” level, but it’s also not exactly “I…

...and now you're a 30-year-old rich guy with no mates who knew nothing of his 20s. No thanks.

It isn't that bad honestly.

Re: My life with 12 programmers, 2 rooms and one 21st-century dream (2016)

#169

Post by jen729w »

nikanj wrote: post #62
jen729w wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...and now you're a 30-year-old rich guy with no mates who knew nothing of his 20s. No thanks.

There's mountains of broke 30-year olds with no mates who did nothing in their 20s. We try to maintain a false dichotomy where the alternative to working extremely hard is partying, travelling the world, and of course tons of sex. Most people don't do either.

I don’t think it’s a forced dichotomy when I contrast literally living in a cupboard and coding for 16 hours a day with having any sort of other existence during potentially the most energetic decade of your life.

Re: My life with 12 programmers, 2 rooms and one 21st-century dream (2016)

#170

Post by a_imho »

AndyNemmity wrote: post #84
a_imho wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is so hard about saying no to overtime? Just turn off the computer and go home.

If you are the sole person responsible for the main feature of a startup, and it isn't completed, you know that the only thing you can do is put every hour you have into it to try and make it work. That is what is so hard.

Sure, if they are compensated for their extra work in some way. Otherwise it is just free work, one could even say it is unprofessional.

Forcing someone to work overtime against their will is still a big no-no even in most hostile work environments.

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