The Workman Keyboard Layout Philosophy (2010) • Hacker News Board

Re: The Workman Keyboard Layout Philosophy (2010)

#161

Post by eggie » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 9:32 AM UTC

cityroasted wrote: post #77

eggie wrote: post #20

The author doesn't even learn dvorak before deciding that it doesn't work for them. They mention don't like how it behaves on the consonant-heavy, qwerty-optimized commands used in unix. (I have to say this is a fair evaluation, but in practice the layout somehow doesn't encourage RSI despite the apparent awkwardness of typing unix commands on it.) In result they don't seem to understand that the dvorak layout is opt…

In the author's defense, I came to the same conclusion using Dvorak when I was a teenager learning unix and programming. I switched back to QWERTY for a while, but around 8 years ago I learned about Colemak and switched and have been very happy with it since. One thing I like about Colemak is that it is close enough to QWERTY that I can still type on QWERTY by looking at the keys and not look like a complete fool. Dv…

After switching back and forth between Dvorak and QWERTY for multi-hour work sessions maybe three times I found that I could do so instantly. I learned touch typing on QWERTY very young so maybe this is why it was easy for me. I often use a keyboard without any labels on the keys so it's always touch typing no matter the layout I pick. Also, I don't really get anxious about things that slow down my text entry, so I tolerated my own interface experiments without worry. I've coded and done data analysis using my thumbs on a cell phone. Switching keyboard layouts really isn't so bad by comparison. To each their own.

I find it surprising that much of the current effort in keyboard layouts is in finding things that are better than QWERTY but similar enough to it to not be scary. I am completely unmotivated by this. If someone could convince me that their layout was a kind of super-Dvorak, and scientifically enhanced the same features that I enjoy about it then I would try it out in a heartbeat.

Re: The Workman Keyboard Layout Philosophy (2010)

#162

Post by rezeroed » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 9:59 AM UTC

flyingfences wrote: post #118

rezeroed wrote: post #47

We need keyboards with digital keys, not printed, so we can change the layouts at the click of a button.

Or just use blank keycaps... the legends shouldn't matter because you shouldn't be looking down at the board while you type.

For learning and trying out new layouts.

Re: The Workman Keyboard Layout Philosophy (2010)

#163

Post by rezeroed » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 10:01 AM UTC

joemccall86 wrote: post #86

rezeroed wrote: post #47

We need keyboards with digital keys, not printed, so we can change the layouts at the click of a button.

I recalled https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimus_Maximus_keyboard from years ago. It looks like the successor uses an LCD screen: http://www.artlebedev.com/optimus/popularis/ .

Bingo.

Re: The Workman Keyboard Layout Philosophy (2010)

#164

Post by ken » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 2:46 PM UTC

mherrmann wrote: post #115

ken wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the weakest (pinky) finger A lot of keyboard layout enthusiasts (including the linked article) make this claim, but is there any evidence for it? As someone who as trained in various arts that use the hand, I've always been told by all of my teachers that the pinky is the strongest finger. This article rates the first two fingers "very strong" and "strong", while ring and pinky are both "weak", yet a ring/pinky pul…

The pinky being the weakest perfectly matches my subjective experience. My wrist pain is at the outside of my wrist. The more I use my pinky, the worse it gets.

That doesn't sound like strength at all to me. Just because it hurts to use a body part doesn't automatically mean the muscles attached to it are weak.

Re: The Workman Keyboard Layout Philosophy (2010)

#165

Post by flyingfences » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 8:12 PM UTC

rezeroed wrote: post #162

flyingfences wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or just use blank keycaps... the legends shouldn't matter because you shouldn't be looking down at the board while you type.

For learning and trying out new layouts.

Still, you shouldn't be looking down. In addition to taking your eyes off the screen, it also builds a dependence on seeing your finger positions instead of building muscle memory. The recommended method (if you aren't willing to go cold-turkey trial-and-error) is to print out a map of the layout and tape it on the _top_ of your monitor for a few days.