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Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

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Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#161
post #153

Couple anecdotal points: - Used to have to sleep problems - mainly just my mind racing with all the (stress of) things I had to do. The symptoms were trouble sleeping and/or waking in the middle of the night with instant thoughts of projects, task lists. - Melatonin didn't help me much. Maybe their effect was too subtle on me - maybe I was using the wrong dose as mentioned in the post. - Magnesium Glycinate pills bef…

I am sharing my experience because I know how awful sleep problems can be.

I'm in my 30s and eat what many consider a very healthful diet - virtually no sugar, just veggies, high quality fats and proteins, and minimal fruit. I spend 7-9 hours in bed; yet wake up feeling exhausted every. single. day. I'd love to exercise, but I'm too continuously tired to get started.

Melatonin, when taken via dissolving sublingual tablet (1-3 mg), makes me feel a bit sleepier, but doesn't often keep me asleep through the night. When swallowed via a capsule, it makes me feel like I've been hit by a bus for the entirety of the next day, even if I slept the night before.

My own research led me to magnesium glycinate, which helped to some degree (maybe I wasn't taking enough?), but didn't solve the problem. My biggest trouble is falling asleep - I can be dead tired, but as soon as I'm in bed, my mind goes nuts, and I lie awake for hours. Then, by the time my body is in nice deep sleep, it's time to get up, and the deep sleep is disrupted.

I recently had an appointment with my physician (who practices integrative medicine and is not your typical MD), and he told me to try a relatively new formulation of magnesium called Magnesium L-Threonate, commercially known as Magtein.

It is apparently the best type of magnesium for crossing the blood-brain barrier, and thus, likely the best at addressing sleep issues.

I've been on it for about a week now (taking 1000mg 2 hours before bed and 1000mg upon waking in the morning), and have slept better in the last two nights than I have for a long time. Here's to hoping it keeps working!

I also use a couple other hacks to help me sleep - at night, about an hour after the sun sets, I wear "blue blocking" glasses (the UVEX S0360X fit nicely over my prescription glasses). Sounds (and looks) goofy, but for me it creates a noticeably stronger "sleep pressure" than I'd experience without them. I also wear a mask over my eyes when sleeping, to block out any ambient light, and I just started making an effort to listen to music while waiting to fall asleep. I think all of these things help to some degree.

Also, check out the book "Why We Sleep" by Matthew Walker.

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#162
post #153

Couple anecdotal points: - Used to have to sleep problems - mainly just my mind racing with all the (stress of) things I had to do. The symptoms were trouble sleeping and/or waking in the middle of the night with instant thoughts of projects, task lists. - Melatonin didn't help me much. Maybe their effect was too subtle on me - maybe I was using the wrong dose as mentioned in the post. - Magnesium Glycinate pills bef…

Quick note for anyone reading this about magnesium glycinate: this form of magnesium contains an amino acid called glycine, and we have evidence that glycine can improve sleep quality. According to examine.com, the evidence is "very high" that: >In persons undergoing mild sleep deprivation, 3g of glycine an hour prior to sleep is able to increase sleep quality and improve self-reports of fatigue and well being the ne…

According to consumerlab.com, there have only been a few, small studies, all supported by or involving employees of Ajinomoto, which sells glycine. So it seems wrong to call the evidence "very high".

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#163

Magnesium is very important. Magnesium deficient rats were shown to have decreased melatonin. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/17172005/ It's also protective against hypercalcemia, so if you're taking vitamin D, make sure you're getting enough magnesium. I've even read that magnesium alone can mitigate the symptoms of vitamin D deficiency.

Thanks, whats the best magnesium supplement to take?

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#164
post #161
post #153

Couple anecdotal points: - Used to have to sleep problems - mainly just my mind racing with all the (stress of) things I had to do. The symptoms were trouble sleeping and/or waking in the middle of the night with instant thoughts of projects, task lists. - Melatonin didn't help me much. Maybe their effect was too subtle on me - maybe I was using the wrong dose as mentioned in the post. - Magnesium Glycinate pills bef…

I am sharing my experience because I know how awful sleep problems can be. I'm in my 30s and eat what many consider a very healthful diet - virtually no sugar, just veggies, high quality fats and proteins, and minimal fruit. I spend 7-9 hours in bed; yet wake up feeling exhausted every. single. day. I'd love to exercise, but I'm too continuously tired to get started. Melatonin, when taken via dissolving sublingual ta…

It’s recommended in Walker’s book so you probably already know about it, but CBTI (cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia) might be a useful intervention for you based on the difficulties you’ve described.

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#165
post #153

Couple anecdotal points: - Used to have to sleep problems - mainly just my mind racing with all the (stress of) things I had to do. The symptoms were trouble sleeping and/or waking in the middle of the night with instant thoughts of projects, task lists. - Melatonin didn't help me much. Maybe their effect was too subtle on me - maybe I was using the wrong dose as mentioned in the post. - Magnesium Glycinate pills bef…

My experience with Melatonin is similar to yours. I tried the 2.5 mg and the 5mg dosages. If anything they made my sleep even shallower in the sense, yeah I have my eyes closed but am fully aware of my thoughts and surroundings but am too lazy/tired to be physically active. It also gave me weird dreams (not that I mind). waking up was tiring because all night my mind was awake. I think its good for REM sleep but what I desired more was the deeper sleep cycles that make me feel rested.

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#166
post #161
post #153

Couple anecdotal points: - Used to have to sleep problems - mainly just my mind racing with all the (stress of) things I had to do. The symptoms were trouble sleeping and/or waking in the middle of the night with instant thoughts of projects, task lists. - Melatonin didn't help me much. Maybe their effect was too subtle on me - maybe I was using the wrong dose as mentioned in the post. - Magnesium Glycinate pills bef…

I am sharing my experience because I know how awful sleep problems can be. I'm in my 30s and eat what many consider a very healthful diet - virtually no sugar, just veggies, high quality fats and proteins, and minimal fruit. I spend 7-9 hours in bed; yet wake up feeling exhausted every. single. day. I'd love to exercise, but I'm too continuously tired to get started. Melatonin, when taken via dissolving sublingual ta…

Not sure if minimal fruit counts as a healthy diet

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#167
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is an excellent book. However, it doesn't contain a lot of practical advice (other than the 12 points at the end of the book, which were released already by National Sleep Association) Somewhat tangetial, check out "The Circadian Code" as well - a lot of more practical advice in this one. They actually disagree on couple of delicate points, so not sure how can one make up one's mind as to which one's correct (e.…

I don’t really think it works in the same way for humans. I have been doing it for decades and I can assure you that my body fat increases if I overeat.

End of the day you still have to burn more calories than you take in and also eat less carbs and sugars. I think once you do that any benefits are marginal(based on my personal experience)

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did this for a decade. If you drink or smoke pot to sleep you will slowly go mad. They suppress deep sleep.

This is true for alcohol but I'm not sure about cannabis. In California, a heavy indica is a recommended by doctors for sleep. My understanding is that it only affects R.E.M. sleeep. Anecdotally, I track my sleep and when I smoked a heavy indica before bed I would consistently get at high 80 to 90% sleep quality. I'm on a couple of month tolerance break and have a hard time breaking 80% sleep quality.

Allow me to refer you to

Joe Rogan - Effects of Alcohol and Marijuana on Sleep https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNxk8W10wtY

I agree that sleep on THC is far better than no sleep at all, but for me, it became a crutch. I couldn't sleep without it. It was hell for traveling.

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#170
post #161
post #153

Couple anecdotal points: - Used to have to sleep problems - mainly just my mind racing with all the (stress of) things I had to do. The symptoms were trouble sleeping and/or waking in the middle of the night with instant thoughts of projects, task lists. - Melatonin didn't help me much. Maybe their effect was too subtle on me - maybe I was using the wrong dose as mentioned in the post. - Magnesium Glycinate pills bef…

I am sharing my experience because I know how awful sleep problems can be. I'm in my 30s and eat what many consider a very healthful diet - virtually no sugar, just veggies, high quality fats and proteins, and minimal fruit. I spend 7-9 hours in bed; yet wake up feeling exhausted every. single. day. I'd love to exercise, but I'm too continuously tired to get started. Melatonin, when taken via dissolving sublingual ta…

What you've just described also sounds a lot like sleep apnea. Healthy, non-snorers can have it so might be worth doing a quick test.
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