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The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

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Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#161

Post by egypturnash »

BurningFrog wrote: post #26
Sharlin wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last time I read a library-related discussion on HN, one of the sentiments expressed was basically ”I download ebooks, why would anyone need a library?” Boggles the mind. There was also a bizarre comment about libraries being only funded to keep a bunch of otherwise useless civil servants employed.

Let me steelman that argument. Libraries were invented because information was only available on printed (or hand written) books, which were very expensive and scarce resources. Now information can be available almost literally for free and instantly, to anywhere. If the institutional inertia of libraries didn't exist today, would they really be invented as they are? https://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Steel_man

Did you RTFA before you jumped into the comments? Here, let me give you a quote.

> Just this week, a woman stopped by our desk because she needed to be taught how to open a new tab in an internet browser. She returned a few minutes later and said, “Please write ‘stomach ache’ on this piece of paper for me. I don’t know to spell it.” The man waiting behind her had no idea how to open an internet browser to begin his first job search in years. I walked him through the process and helped him get to a job site. This was a few minutes of a 40-hour workweek.

> I can’t imagine where this woman and this man would go without the library. Would Amazon really be willing to help them with all of their needs free of charge?

Information is available “almost literally for free and instantly” to people who can afford a device that connects to the internet.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#163

Post by kazen44 »

TimJYoung wrote: post #38

If you're going to have copyright and intellectual property, then you need libraries, period. You can't charge money for such goods and completely cut off access to those that can't afford them. You need a balance between compensating the hard work of the creators and making sure that all citizens have access to their own culture, especially children. I also host a software development meetup at our local library, an…

> If you're going to have copyright and intellectual property, then you need libraries, period. You can't charge money for such goods and completely cut off access to those that can't afford them.

i strongly agree with this point. Freedom to educate onselfes without using institutionalised education is also VITAL for a democracy to function properly.

People seem to forget libraries are one of the only places one can gain new knowledge regardless of their economic state or status. (atleast, that is how it works in my country).

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#164

Post by cimmanom »

s73v3r_ wrote: post #156
JTbane wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny to imagine publishers making the case against them- "You're gonna just let people borrow books for free!? How will I turn a profit?" It's also kind of sad that this logic is so prevalent with regards to software, films, music, etc.

Well, with regards to software, films, music, etc, lots of people work on those. Those people need to feed their families.

And authors don't?

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#165

Post by ikeyany »

dionidium wrote: post #122
ikeyany wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a Prime example of why tech workers are despised outside of our bubble.

The bubble of tech workers is only equaled by the bubble of anti-tech activists. Most people don't have a stronger opinion about what you do than you do about whatever random thing they do.

I'm sure bankers believe the same thing about themselves.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#166

Post by stcredzero »

geebee wrote: post #12

I'm largely in agreement with this Vox piece, but I think there's much more to say in defense of libraries as well. I have a friend who found a red envelope with some money in it in a book that he'd checked out of the library. He figured it belonged to whoever had checked the book out earlier, so he went into the branch and mentioned it. They said that they could find out the last person to read the book, but no more…

Can you imagine Netflix or Amazon, Google or Facebook behaving this way?

This is the difference between having a sense of civic duty and community vs. not. The customer/business relationship is a poor substitute for the real thing, even when they try to foster the trappings of false "community."

there was a time when people considered the idea of an institution having a long and complete list of everything you've read more than creepy, it was terrifying.

As it should be. There are institutions and cohorts of society trying to control access to information and opinion. This has been going on for quite some time. Noam Chomsky co-wrote a book about it in the 80's.

Libraries don't play nearly as much of a role in making sure that people can access information privately as they used to, they've been shoved out of the way, but they were far more principled guardians of it than tech companies

A librarian friend of mine noted that libraries had come into the business of de-facto social work.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#167

Post by GW150914 »

eric_the_read wrote: post #142
robrenaud wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a librarian's salary, one could subsidize lots of internet for low income people.

Have you looked at public librarian salaries lately? A senior-- senior, mind you-- librarian at the Colorado Springs Library District is being offered $25/hr. I don't recall for certain by now, but I'm pretty sure I made more than that my very first year out of school and I'm practically decrepit by this site's standards.

For contrast, a cop makes 2-3 times that much per hour for directing traffic.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#168

Post by EpicEng »

rb808 wrote: post #57
chris_mc wrote: post #2

If you think libraries are useless, try going to one a few times and talk to the staff about the services they provide. I'd personally say libraries are one of the government organizations with the best return on investment, because education and information are almost invaluable. I'll fight a war over libraries, no joke.

> try going to one This is probably the best hint that they might not be so useful. The truth is most people never go to libraries.

>The truth is most people never go to libraries

The truth is, most people don't go to _any_ single place. A lot of people frequent libraries, but they're probably not in the same socioeconomic place as you. When you wrote that last sentence, did you stop to think that maybe you don't really know what you're talking about?

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#169

Post by spamizbad »

glup wrote: post #114
Fricken wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My local libraries are converting into makerspaces. They have green screens, sound studios, mac pros with Adobe creative suite software, 3D printers, Lego mindstorms, and a bunch of other stuff. Knowledge that can be printed is now abundant, but vernacular knowledge remains scarce, and the libraries in my city are becoming a storehouse for that knowledge. It's pretty cool.

out of interest, what city?

Not OP, but the Chicago Public Library system has essentially those amenities available at the Harold Washington Library Center.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#170

Post by rainbowmverse »

rb808 wrote: post #57
chris_mc wrote: post #2

If you think libraries are useless, try going to one a few times and talk to the staff about the services they provide. I'd personally say libraries are one of the government organizations with the best return on investment, because education and information are almost invaluable. I'll fight a war over libraries, no joke.

> try going to one This is probably the best hint that they might not be so useful. The truth is most people never go to libraries.

Almost everyone in Georgia has and uses a PINES card, and they're very happy about it.[1] The library here in Winder just re-opened after renovating to add and expand a bunch of non-book services and make room for all the people who go to it.

You know nothing about libraries. Go to one.

[1] https://www.georgialibraries.org/lib/statistics/

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