Investors, $10 billion more for Tony Stark or the Earth gets it!
Ten years left to redesign lithium-ion batteries?
161–170 of 261 posts
Re: Ten years left to redesign lithium-ion batteries?
#162In ten years, I predict we'll have started transitioning to aluminum-ion batteries. Lithium has one valence electron. Aluminum has three. Aluminum-ion cells are not new, and they do have issues, but the same can be said of Lithium-ion 20 years ago. Energy densities are remarkably different, with aluminum the clear winner. Ironically, nickel and probably cobalt will be needed for mass-produced aluminum-ion batteries t…
Al-ion may be superior in energy density, but I doubt we'll be seeing it in EVs any time soon. The recharging issues may be able to be solved, but the vast majority of all funding for R&D and production is being focused on lithium right now. Lithium is "good enough" to hit the $100/kWh target which will make EVs affordable to the mass market.
Re: Ten years left to redesign lithium-ion batteries?
#163Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Land is one of the single most limited resources we have. It sounds romantic but is it really ? Even agricultural land is relatively cheap and there are more scarce resources that are needed for development.
Cheapness isn’t a measure of importance though. Air is cheap. Water is cheap. That doesn’t mean it’s ok to squander and pollute cheap but essential and very expensive to renew resources until they are not cheap anymore. Water and soil in particular are very important resources to protect, far beyond their price in economic terms. They are vital strategic assets because so much of our economy and ecology depend on the…
Thank you so much for saying what needs to be said! People read too many economists. "Money is the only measure of value and I didn't pay my own mother, so motherhood must be worthless!"
Re: Ten years left to redesign lithium-ion batteries?
#164Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Lithium is both light in weight and has nearly the highest possible voltage swing of ~~3.7 volts (versus 2 volts for lead and 1.2 volts for Nicads and NiMh which are many time heavier per KWHr in addition) IANAchemist, but this makes me wonder if there's some other chemistry out there, either undiscovered or deemed uneconomic, that offers even better performance than lithium.
>IANAchemist, but this makes me wonder if there's some other chemistry out there, either undiscovered or deemed uneconomic, that offers even better performance than lithium. There are, but of course there's tradeoffs. Lithium is the best all around cathode choice for economical reasons, but Sodium and Potassium are being explored as well. The real gains can be found in new electrolyte chemistries, though. My money is…
I wonder what the problems with sodium and potassium are. Sodium, for one, is an extremely common element on Earth's surface, which I can't say for Lithium. Potassium is also very common. You can get all the sodium you could possibly want just by drying out seawater. By contrast, lithium supply seems to be limited to a few places such as Bolivia.
Re: Ten years left to redesign lithium-ion batteries?
#165As one of my favorite comedians once put it: „Analysts are people who tell you what the world will look like in 15 years if nothing changes. Now do you REALLY want to know how long your toenails get if you don‘t cut them?!“ Movement here will come from a number of factors: - Demand increases, which will: - open up more mines (nicely summarized in the long commentary in this thread) - incentivize better extraction tec…
> do you REALLY want to know how long your toenails get if you don‘t cut them?!
Obvious reply: not cutting your toenails would be a change from usual
Re: Ten years left to redesign lithium-ion batteries?
#166Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nuclear weapons won't target cities, there simply aren't enough weapons to hit all of the military targets, so none would be left over for counter value. It makes little sense to target civilians, who can't directly inflict damage on your nation's military or citizens, when you have available military targets that will further the accomplishment of objectives. So all nuclear warfare in total war is counter force.
>So all nuclear warfare in total war is counter force. And yet the only real example of nuclear warfare targeted civilians...
Japanese society of the time integrated their wartime weapons manufacturing inside cities, a fact that isn't true today. So both Nagasaki and Hiroshima were legitimate targets. The other issue is that towards the end of the war, there wasn't much left to bomb. If we had had nuclear weapons at the beginning of the war, we'd have likely targeted naval installations.
Re: Ten years left to redesign lithium-ion batteries?
#167The problem with Rare Earth is that the West collectively acts like 3 year old who are to dumb to solve incredibly simple problems. Rare earth contained lots of Thorium and that has to be handled as nuclear waste and that means you have 1000s of tons of nuclear waste on your hands. This is of course completely idiotic because Thorium not really a big problem as it is not radioactive. The few Rare Earth mines that do…
As someone currently dealing the consequences of being far too cavalier with long term environmental pollutants like PCBs and lead, I would argue that behavior you're describing as being that of a "3 year old" is actually a good example of government sanity, not stupidity. It's reasonable long term caution to avoid creating a bigger problem in the future. The true 3 year old behavior on display here is the market beh…
What does soil have to do with this? You think they’re just going to put the thorium in fertilizer or drop it all over the country from the air?
Lithium ion batteries are incredibly important if we want to make a fast transition to green energy. The environmental calculus is 100% in favor of finding a thorium disposal site and making rare earths / lithium cheaper now, rather than being picky about where minerals are mined and pumping way more CO2 into the air due to the delay
Localized thorium pollution is something that we can manage and deal with. Global warming, especially if it reaches a runaway tipping point, could displace a billion people, cause massive famines, and destroy tens of trillions of dollars of infrastructure and assets. Also consider that localized thorium pollution would probably be on-par with the pollution from washing coal, which is what would be replaced
Re: Ten years left to redesign lithium-ion batteries?
#168Earlier quoted context omitted.
Unlike petroleum, batteries are almost 100% recyclable. Our "peak battery" is bounded at the product of "peak population" and per-capita battery need, both of which are fairly constrained. Not really the right analysis.
> Unlike petroleum, batteries are almost 100% recyclable. Not using current technology. You can't recycle lithium (for example) using smelting. It's also not very profitable. It's still very much an unsolved problem. I would love to be proved wrong! Edit: I don't know why this is being downvoted. Using current recycling methods, the lithium is not recyclable (the cobalt is). I then asked if I am not correct, to pleas…
Are you suggesting we know how to extract lithium from a random mix of many minerals, but getting it out of the used battery is beyond our capabilities? That’s not very believable.
The real issue is that, just as you hint, it’s actually cheaper to get lithium from mineral rich dirt, than to set up collection, disassembly and recovery operation for existing batteries. We can do it, it’s just not most economically efficient way to get raw lithium. If lithium goes up in price, it might become viable.
Re: Ten years left to redesign lithium-ion batteries?
#169Earlier quoted context omitted.
I remember trying to explain basic Econ 101 to a classmate while in third year engineering. Peak Oil was a religion back then. The same isn't true for the environment. Unlike Peak Oil where economic incentives simultaneously would encourage smaller cars with more efficient engines while also directing research into more advanced oil retrieval (or at the very worst biofuels) the environment is not something the market…
Polluting the environment is damaging someone's property (private or state), for which they will eventually demand restitution. It's part of market forces. Conversely, a certain amount of pollution/environmental destruction is a price people are willing to pay.
lol if you think the government is going to be able to sue for the profits paid from then-bankrupt gas companies at any point in the future
and how would displaced Bangladeshi people even be able to sue Exxon Mobil for the environmental damages they are currently suffering from? This is a really dumb libertarian fantasy
Re: Ten years left to redesign lithium-ion batteries?
#170My first encounter with a "just 10 more years" projection was while writing a paper on zinc in middle school. My reference book about mining and metallurgy discussed declining reserves and that the world would be entirely out of zinc by 1985 without careful conservation. Except I was reading the book in 1995, and it was published in 1975. It became an interesting point in my paper.
If this writer didn't work for a company that will make money off his ridiculous assertions, I would be baffled how an educated adult could write such an article.