Live data from Hacker News

A new digital divide: Young people who can’t use keyboards

asahi.com

161–170 of 365 posts

Re: A new digital divide: Young people who can’t use keyboards

#161

It's worth bearing in mind that the source is Japanese. All input methods for the Japanese language are a compromise. Inputting kanji on a physical keyboard is nowhere near as fluid as inputting Latin characters - you're constantly toggling between inputting kana and selecting the kanji options presented by the IME. The prediction and correction technologies of smartphone keyboards are a very good match for kanji and…

Which IMEs have you tried with a physical keyboard? I don't type much Chinese on a keyboard these days but I recall that the Sogou IME for Windows had far more accurate ranking of suggestions than did the built-in one.

Re: A new digital divide: Young people who can’t use keyboards

#162
post #54
post #9

Do your children a favor and get them a "real" computer with keyboard and mouse, instead of a tablet. I've found it helps with several things. For one, I've seen children accustomed to using touch interfaces blurring the line between physical and virtual, i.e swiping at physical objects like books, photos, even walls. I've not seen this behavior with those used to non touch interfaces. Also, learning to use a keyboar…

Kids should be weaned off tablets just like infants are weaned off milk and induced to use their teeth. The thing that really bothers me is, as Alan Kay says: The ipad interface is designed for 2-year-olds and 82-year-olds and being forced upon everyone in between. See, eg: https://www.fastcompany.com/40435064/what-alan-kay-thinks-ab... It is a de-evolution of problem-solving culture in the sense that people are disc…

This kinda captures one of my concerns. While I could care less about the particulars of how people interact with computers, I do find it concerning that modern devices seem to make general purpose computing less accessible. I love my phone but I haven't even found a decent calculator for it much less a tolerable equivalent of Excel, the shell, or programming environment. Part of me suspects it's an inherent limitation in touch IUs but that also seems like a cop out.

Re: A new digital divide: Young people who can’t use keyboards

#163
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A computer is a machine of profound alienation from the actual ability to create and the ability to use, unlike anything someone who survives in the wild or farms would do. Many people will die having used computers for 10 hours a day but not being able to really act with computers and create with computers. This is unacceptable.

> A computer is a machine of profound alienation from the actual ability to create and the ability to use A funny thing to say, given that today a lot of content requires computers to produce, even abstract art. > Many people will die having used computers for 10 hours a day but not being able to really act with computers and create with computers How is that different from people who voraciously read countless books…

How many of these literature readers can't write? Not write well, can't write at all. How many can't take a video? Not take a good video, but take one at all.

But you can use a computer without knowing how to create for it _at all_.

Re: A new digital divide: Young people who can’t use keyboards

#164
post #2

This is similar to the stereotype of: young people are good with computers. Browsing Instagram is not the same as creating value through programming and complex problem solving.

Related: http://www.coding2learn.org/blog/2013/07/29/kids-cant-use-co...

I was just about to post this so I guess I'll just upvote this instead.

Re: A new digital divide: Young people who can’t use keyboards

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're not buying those either. I've seen only one prefab in my area. We're not even building Tiny Houses. That movement has faded away as the land permission issue dominated over their advantages. Meanwhile: https://youtu.be/M73r32vK7C4 That's not a joke - there is a steep decline in being 'handy' - I'm doing everything I can to learn how to be but it still feels a bit unnatural. That lack of adaptability is like an…

I'm old and I just learned the "case length" trick!

Haha and I just learned the "draw a perfect circle around a nail" trick! No idea where that might be useful in my own life though.

Re: A new digital divide: Young people who can’t use keyboards

#166

I think it will take time, keyboard, when first encounters can be hard to use, saying that, younger people these days have access to a keyboard almost 24/7 whether it be iPads or mobiles that they use. I'd like to see how kids of this generation can manage using a franking machine [1] or even a photocopier. Our currently generation 25-40 used floppy disks at some point, now it's just an icon on your software suite [2…

An actual screen and keyboard are inherently useful regardless of which form factor device its connected to. 10 years time is way to short a time for this to cease being so.

Re: A new digital divide: Young people who can’t use keyboards

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With iOS 12, Apple will be integrating automation that lets you automate actions within other programs either visually or from what I’ve read JavaScript. Just imagine what kids can do when they can use their phone to automate smart home devices. There are also apps that let you program robots. https://www.apple.com/shop/product/HK962VC/A/ubtech-jimu-rob... Amazon announced an easy way to program Alexa. https://develo…

IMHO all very poor substitutes. Yes, I know Apple wants to police their App Store, but writing something for your own personal use (and maybe to give some copies to friends) shouldn't be a huge bureaucratic hurdle. (Android has smaller hurdles but still not insignificant --- when the first step in the tutorial is "download and install this gigabyte-sized piece of software", you can be sure a ton of potential users ha…

How will it be a huge hurdle to write your own Siri actions that can control other apps on your phone and your smart devices with iOS 12? You can look on the Internet to see what people have been doing with the Workflow app (the app that Apple acquired and is integrating into iOS) without Apple’s hooks.

Re: A new digital divide: Young people who can’t use keyboards

#168
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But didn't you write a longhand draft first? Or at least longhand outlines?

Yeah, but I mean, those didn't have spell check or word completion or copy/paste or even backspace. Do you know the pain of typing a wrong character on a typewriter? It gets old.

FWIW I had a typewriter in ~1995 that actually had a backspace. It had a white ribbon, similar to white out and it kept a small history buffer so it knew which key to erase. It was an amazing invention.

Re: A new digital divide: Young people who can’t use keyboards

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, but having the technical possibility to create something on the machine make this minority exists in the first place. Now take the same demographic with a locked down class of devices and the basic programming crowd fall to 0%.

With iOS 12, Apple will be integrating automation that lets you automate actions within other programs either visually or from what I’ve read JavaScript. Just imagine what kids can do when they can use their phone to automate smart home devices. There are also apps that let you program robots. https://www.apple.com/shop/product/HK962VC/A/ubtech-jimu-rob... Amazon announced an easy way to program Alexa. https://develo…

Besides the Swift playground nothing is really close to real programming. Even worse, it relies on expensive+ external hardware of questionable utility (the "smart" devices) that repetitively shown how insecure they are. And Alexa is a whole problem of its own given the huge privacy thread it is. I will definitely not teach my kids about happily wasting money on GAFAM/PRISM surveillance tools.

+I would rather spend 40€ on a raspberry PI than a smart light bulb or anything like that.

Re: A new digital divide: Young people who can’t use keyboards

#170

It's worth bearing in mind that the source is Japanese. All input methods for the Japanese language are a compromise. Inputting kanji on a physical keyboard is nowhere near as fluid as inputting Latin characters - you're constantly toggling between inputting kana and selecting the kanji options presented by the IME. The prediction and correction technologies of smartphone keyboards are a very good match for kanji and…

As a Japanese native speaker who has to enter many Japanese texts on a daily basis both on a PC and on a smartphone, I feel obliged to point out that the quality of an IME (a piece of software providing possible kanji/alphabet sequences for a given phonetic relization), is far better on a PC (its built-in MS-IME, to be precise) than on a smartphone (iOS). I started looking for some example to show how bad iOS's IME i…

The iOS IME definitely uses context but I think the default training just isn't very good. If I try your example it starts suggesting 感じ, but once I add を it changes to 漢字を.

But this is also why there is a large market in third party keyboards/IMEs, even on Windows. From the classic ATOK to the modern Google Japanese IME

Post reply on HN