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LIDL cancels SAP introduction after spending 500M Euro

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Re: LIDL cancels SAP introduction after spending 500M Euro

#161

Post by rbanffy »

bumholio wrote: post #103
netinmate wrote: post #86

Customization is key, you CAN't customize. I worked on an SAP implementation, a Fortune 500 company, complexity like crazy, sub-companies, of sub-companies, of sub-companies, federal, state and local compliance for what the company did, operating in 50 states, with an International supply chain, and our integrator was nothing special. We held firm to the NO CUSTOMIZATION rule, we re-engineered our processes to fit SA…

> we re-engineered our processes to fit SAP. That sounds just about like the most revolting and negative endorsement you can make for a business solution. Every company is special and the flexibility to adapt to a changing environment is what keeps a company alive during those times of crisis, that always come. "We can't do this because the system does not allow it" is great and expected at the warehouse worker level…

> Every company is special

A company must consider whether its business processes are a competitive advantage. In well established businesses, chances are they aren't. In that scenario, it really doesn't make much sense to stick with them.

Re: LIDL cancels SAP introduction after spending 500M Euro

#162

Post by rbanffy »

dragonwriter wrote: post #116
d_e_solomon wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a former consultant in SAP - Most companies aren't that unique in how they execute most processes. For instance, AP payments generally looks the same at a high level. For the variations of business processes, SAP gives you lots of room to modify configuration to fit your process. If you're in a specialized industry like Aerospace or Oil and Gas, they have unique industry specific solutions. I've seen the flip side…

> SAP failed implementations are unique from other software failed implementations. No, they aren't. > It doesn't fail because of the product; it fails because of the people and politics of the organization. Essentially all project failure are for that reason. (Including ones where one intermediary step on the route to failure was that the people and politics in the organization ended up selecting a solution that was…

> selecting a solution that was a poor fit for the problem

In the specific case of SAP, if the problem is "we want to automate our processes" then it's probably a horrible fit.

If, however, the problem is "we need good automated processes", then it can be a great fit.

Re: LIDL cancels SAP introduction after spending 500M Euro

#163

Post by rbanffy »

mgkimsal wrote: post #154
mbesto wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

^ this. Coca Cola does their financials the same way Pepsico does. Yet both companies have tried to implement them in unique ways and subsequently have cost them a great deal in terms of IT implementation costs that offer little to no competitive advantage.

potentially harder to poach people from the competition if you're both doing generic stuff but using proprietary, custom and opposite techniques?

That's a justification for writing an ERP in Brainfuck.

Re: LIDL cancels SAP introduction after spending 500M Euro

#164

Post by rbanffy »

manmal wrote: post #156
petepete wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The profit is in having the ability to upgrade on a whim, to refer to the masses of documentation and expertise without having to translate it into your own lingo and to use off the shelf components without needing to customise them too.

Ok, so no organizational benefits?

Perhaps you need fewer people maintaining those business apps.

Re: LIDL cancels SAP introduction after spending 500M Euro

#165

Post by rbanffy »

rwmj wrote: post #130
mbesto wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Former SAP employee here, who btw, is very critical of SAP. I also happen to have worked in Escalation Management at SAP, who's prime responsibility was to take SAP projects that were about to go south and put them into "escalation" before they the hit newspapers. Let me try to explain the mystery around SAP. 1. Most of the situations where SAP projects go haywire is largely due to (a) incorrect implementation by the…

> 5. What's the alternative? Oracle? I don't think it's possible for software to suck worse than the Oracle E-Business Suite expenses reporting software.

All enterprise software suck at one function or another.

In expense reporting, at least, sucking really badly reduces the amount the company needs to reimburse ;-)

Re: LIDL cancels SAP introduction after spending 500M Euro

#167

Post by lixtra »

rwallace wrote: post #99
misja111 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What SAP and Oracle have in common is that they have a very capable sales force, that is able to convince companies that their business case will fit nicely into their model. Then, once the implementation is ongoing and it turns out that there are some corner cases which were overlooked and that don't fit into the SAP model at all, SAP has another option available: hire their expensive consultants. Depending on how l…

Do you know of any case studies of companies being completely destroyed by this process? I have certainly heard of such projects getting into trouble, would be interested to know of any cases where it went as far as the customer going bankrupt.

Here are two examples where such claims were made:

https://www.computerworld.com/article/2530405/it-careers/sap...

https://www.t-online.de/finanzen/boerse/news/id_47703844/sch...

Re: LIDL cancels SAP introduction after spending 500M Euro

#168

Post by rbanffy »

blattimwind wrote: post #57
arbitrary_name wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not quite. I have worked with sap at many different clients. Some Reasons for buying SAP ( by that i mean their ERP as well as funxtional or industry specific tools and applications.) are as follows Scale: at this size, you pick SAP or Oracle. There's very little else out there in the market. Proven implementation: speaking for most clients, you cannot get a major ERP implementation done without outside help. You wil…

I've used some SAP-based solutions a few times and the closest experience I can relate it to is late 90s MS Access applications: Everything takes ages. Things that should be easy and quick (e.g. viewing a related record or item) are often difficult and take time. Every form of search function doesn't really work, even with perfect input data. Searching doesn't work if your input is slightly off (e.g. names in wrong o…

One of the reasons companies adopt software like SAP is to replace process expertise with software. If a highly paid process expert accomplishes a task in half the time a poorly paid person accomplishes the same task with SAP, SAP wins if the poorly paid person makes half as much as the well paid one.

Also there is a question of scalability - the supply of smart people is limited and depending on smarts is risky. Hiring people that may even be smart when that's not required and that can't do any damage because the software prevents them from doing it will scale better than having to hire only smart people to operate more flexible software.

Re: LIDL cancels SAP introduction after spending 500M Euro

#169

Post by rbanffy »

quikoa wrote: post #159
hibbelig wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lidl rolled it out in the smaller countries, learned the lesson that it's not going to work, and stopped it.

What I find crazy is that it still took 500M to figure that out.

It took that much for all levels of management involved to admit it was hopeless and for the top level to ax them.

Re: LIDL cancels SAP introduction after spending 500M Euro

#170

Post by rbanffy »

craigsmansion wrote: post #62
arethuza wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ERP systems are basically accounts packages with aspirations for world domination. From a long way, and I mean a really long way, they seem straightforward - but get close and they are Lovecraftian horrors. Remember, SAP is how Lucifer interacts with our world .

Whereas Oracle is how Larry Ellison interacts with our world. A reasonable business case for SAP, I suppose.

I'd take my chances with Lucifer.
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