Uber Will Rent Scooters Through Its App in Partnership with Lime • Hacker News Board

Re: Uber Will Rent Scooters Through Its App in Partnership with Lime

#161

Post by maym86 » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 5:47 AM UTC

CamperBob2 wrote: post #95

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just have them self-drive to a charger.

They are going to self-drive everywhere, I suspect. It's much easier to make a scooter or a bicycle autonomous than a car. There's at least one company around here working on self-delivering bicycles. The idea is that you call one up on your phone and wait by the curb, and the bike will come cruising up to you. When you're done, you just hop off, and the bike cruises to its next renter (or charger) rather than lying…

> It's much easier to make a scooter or a bicycle autonomous than a car.

No it's not. Less stable platform. Exact same issues with obstacle detection and avoiance, path planning and scene understanding with less available power for sensors and compute. Higher relative sensor cost. Fewer closed environments like highways. Added issue of being able to steal them more easily.

Re: Uber Will Rent Scooters Through Its App in Partnership with Lime

#162

Post by dluong » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 6:38 AM UTC

whelchel wrote: post #106

bit_logic wrote: post #103

I was thinking about the debate on scooters and it made me realize something: Bike lanes are a disaster, probably one of the biggest mistakes in road design and planning. The basic idea was sound, but it was done the wrong way. Everywhere you see a bike lane, that should've been the concrete sidewalk extended into that area with a painted stripe separating pedestrians and bicycles. Go to a beach and you can see the c…

There is some merit to that idea but I think you may be missing a few things. Often, parking is placed between a bike lane and the side walk. Bikes need to be able to cross lanes, often in cities, to make left turns. How can they do that when they're up on a curb to start, but additionally, with potential street parking in the way? I think technically in many jurisdictions, bikes are to be treated as vehicles. Whethe…

Bikes should not be crossing lanes along with traffic to make left turns, they should do what pedestrians do. Cross along one direction on the sidewalk, then cross in the 2nd direction. Bikes should not mix in with traffic, it's just chaos and safety issues all around.

Re: Uber Will Rent Scooters Through Its App in Partnership with Lime

#163

Post by mFixman » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 7:06 AM UTC

bit_logic wrote: post #103

I was thinking about the debate on scooters and it made me realize something: Bike lanes are a disaster, probably one of the biggest mistakes in road design and planning. The basic idea was sound, but it was done the wrong way. Everywhere you see a bike lane, that should've been the concrete sidewalk extended into that area with a painted stripe separating pedestrians and bicycles. Go to a beach and you can see the c…

The part you are missing, like most people who aren't used to exercise and see city planning in a car-centric way, is that a bicycle can go at a serious speed in a city.

Bike lanes in sidewalks work in beaches because bikers tend to drive at a comfortable cruising speed. Daily commuters usually bike in the ~15-25mph range in a city (and a lot faster in suburbs and country roads); that speed is dangerous for pedestrians. You are also disregarding turns and intersections, where it's much more convenient to stop as little as possible.

The solution to bike lanes is physically separated lanes that don't give lazy car drivers free parking space and don't penalize cyclists for traffic, but still allows them to move to the roads when there aren't many cars as in [1].

[1] https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...

Re: Uber Will Rent Scooters Through Its App in Partnership with Lime

#164

Post by rorykoehler » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 7:28 AM UTC

bit_logic wrote: post #103

I was thinking about the debate on scooters and it made me realize something: Bike lanes are a disaster, probably one of the biggest mistakes in road design and planning. The basic idea was sound, but it was done the wrong way. Everywhere you see a bike lane, that should've been the concrete sidewalk extended into that area with a painted stripe separating pedestrians and bicycles. Go to a beach and you can see the c…

As a cyclist, while I see where you are coming from, I would prefer to be on the road. It's much quicker when you are a first class citizen. The solution the dutch have is far better. They have bike roads (not lanes). The way to retro fit this in the US would be to embed physical divider bollards in the road.

Re: Uber Will Rent Scooters Through Its App in Partnership with Lime

#165

Post by rorykoehler » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 7:31 AM UTC

conradev wrote: post #124

bit_logic wrote: post #103

I was thinking about the debate on scooters and it made me realize something: Bike lanes are a disaster, probably one of the biggest mistakes in road design and planning. The basic idea was sound, but it was done the wrong way. Everywhere you see a bike lane, that should've been the concrete sidewalk extended into that area with a painted stripe separating pedestrians and bicycles. Go to a beach and you can see the c…

It’s not the majority, but Berlin has ~150km of bicycle paths on sidewalks: https://web.archive.org/web/20080922140453/http://www.stadte... When I was there, I kept walking in the bike lane by accident and ended up upsetting some cyclists.

In Berlin I ride on the road

Re: Uber Will Rent Scooters Through Its App in Partnership with Lime

#166

Post by KozmoNau7 » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 9:30 AM UTC

dluong wrote: post #162

whelchel wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is some merit to that idea but I think you may be missing a few things. Often, parking is placed between a bike lane and the side walk. Bikes need to be able to cross lanes, often in cities, to make left turns. How can they do that when they're up on a curb to start, but additionally, with potential street parking in the way? I think technically in many jurisdictions, bikes are to be treated as vehicles. Whethe…

Bikes should not be crossing lanes along with traffic to make left turns, they should do what pedestrians do. Cross along one direction on the sidewalk, then cross in the 2nd direction. Bikes should not mix in with traffic, it's just chaos and safety issues all around.

Absolutely agree. Bikes in left turn lanes are hugely dangerous. They should go straight across, stop at the corner and then turn to go straight the other direction, when the light turns green.

I know some people get annoyed that it's slightly slower, but you avoid some seriously dangerous situations.

Re: Uber Will Rent Scooters Through Its App in Partnership with Lime

#167

Post by KozmoNau7 » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 9:36 AM UTC

Steltek wrote: post #146

bit_logic wrote: post #103

I was thinking about the debate on scooters and it made me realize something: Bike lanes are a disaster, probably one of the biggest mistakes in road design and planning. The basic idea was sound, but it was done the wrong way. Everywhere you see a bike lane, that should've been the concrete sidewalk extended into that area with a painted stripe separating pedestrians and bicycles. Go to a beach and you can see the c…

It's been tried and it's really not that easy. - Cars will make turns that cross your protected bike path and with parking in the way, a bike's already minimal visible cross section is reduced even more. - Bikes need to make left turns which is difficult when there are parked cars in the way. - Pedestrians will happily walk everywhere in your bike lane (oblivious to your bell ringing due to headphones), regardless of…

>"Cars will make turns that cross your protected bike path and with parking in the way, a bike's already minimal visible cross section is reduced even more."

Proper turning/bike lane design and prioritized space for cyclists takes good care of this. In lighted intersections, stagger the lights so bikes have priority.

>" Bikes need to make left turns which is difficult when there are parked cars in the way."

Make bikes do hook turns (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hook_turn) instead of using the cars' left turn lanes. It's significantly safer and doesn't require bikes to cross traffic lanes.

>"Pedestrians will happily walk everywhere in your bike lane (oblivious to your bell ringing due to headphones), regardless of whatever paint you delineate the two areas."

Delineate with a curb instead of just a line, to make the separation clear.

Re: Uber Will Rent Scooters Through Its App in Partnership with Lime

#168

Post by KozmoNau7 » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 9:38 AM UTC

cncrnd wrote: post #139

bit_logic wrote: post #103

I was thinking about the debate on scooters and it made me realize something: Bike lanes are a disaster, probably one of the biggest mistakes in road design and planning. The basic idea was sound, but it was done the wrong way. Everywhere you see a bike lane, that should've been the concrete sidewalk extended into that area with a painted stripe separating pedestrians and bicycles. Go to a beach and you can see the c…

Yeah, I don't understand how cyclists can put so much trust in every single car that drives by them. All it takes is one distracted driver and you get serious injury or worse.

The #1 lesson I took to heart when I took my motorcycle license was "ride as though every car driver is trying to kill you".

When I was handed the license, my instructor told me "congratulations, you are now invisible".

You have to ride as if everyone is simultaneously oblivious to your presence and out to run you over all the time.

Re: Uber Will Rent Scooters Through Its App in Partnership with Lime

#169

Post by masonic » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 9:51 AM UTC

arosier wrote: post #130

sharkmerry wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

at $20/payout, that would be 550 charged in a month or 18/day. Doesnt it take like 4 hours to charge each one? How much did your electric bill go up?

Average payout was $12 for Lime, $12.27 for Bird over the 905 scooters I charged. These were inflated payouts due to the launch in SF. Electricity usage was surprisingly minimal due to usage being in non-peak hours (late night/early morning). Bird quotes $.20/scooter charging expense. My costs were closer to $.02/scooter.

How are you getting time-based rates in residential SF?

Re: Uber Will Rent Scooters Through Its App in Partnership with Lime

#170

Post by foobar1962 » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 11:55 AM UTC

Steltek wrote: post #147

foobar1962 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I guess I'm not sure I understand how this relates. Everybody already does do this. You are allowed to drop your bike off at a bike rack... Scenario: go to park your personal bike at the public bike rack only you discover it's full of bikes from some company who wants to make a buck out of it. A lot of these business models take advantage of resources that are "free" but have really cost a lot of money to set up an…

You'll probably saturate the market before you run out of parking. One car space converted to bike racks would hold 20 bikes and if bike share is truly that popular, it's an entirely viable option.

> One car space converted to bike racks would hold 20 bikes...

In a city CBD, what would one car space be worth? In Sydney some car parks charge $23 an hour. Should this space just be given to some bike share company that decides to set up shop?