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Ok-Cancel versus Cancel-Ok

factorio.com

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Re: Ok-Cancel versus Cancel-Ok

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? It is a “cop out answer” to suggest reading the research literature as a general practice? It is an “unnecessary and infuriating UI change” to roughly follow UI guidelines written down by experts with decades of experience? I am recommending that instead of just making something up based on the developer’s speculation and personal preference (which in your particular example happens to be terrible, as you would…

which in your particular example happens to be terrible, as you would discover if you actually tested it in a real-world setting My points all come from real-world experience, both as a user and developer. These unwanted UI changes irritate me enough to complain about them, but apparently my opinion doesn't count at all, because these so-called "experts" will only parrot their vague "studies show that X, therefore yo…

I honestly have no idea what you are going on about. Nobody else is talking about “changes”, workflow-breaking or otherwise.

You said “In fact, I'd say this is even clearer, putting the question at the end and immediately following it with the two choices:”

Did you ever test this explicitly vs. the recommended alternative of using verbs for labels? (Ideally by doing a user study, but heck, I’ll take anything...)

I claim that this has been empirically tested and found to be inferior (i.e. result in higher error rate) in a variety of studies, both in published research and internal to various large companies which then got baked into their design guidelines. This was a subject of active research in the 1970s–1990s (and perhaps before).

You can find reasonably good advice about the subject in any number of introductory interface design textbooks, etc.

In this particular case, where user data is being irrevocably deleted, errors are especially harmful.

Edit: Maybe the word “terrible” in my previous comment was unfair. Sorry to be inflammatory.

Re: Ok-Cancel versus Cancel-Ok

#162

This has been a debate for as long as I've been a UX designer (mid '90s), and probably much longer. Ultimately, the answer about this UX style is very much the same as a question about writing style—there's no objectively right answer, but you have to be consistent. For example, you can pick up any number of style books from Strunk & White to the Chicago Manual of Style and get different "right" answers about writing…

Great summary.

Another thing to note in the Factorio mockups is the use of a guideline that I originally picked up from the macOS HIG[1]: use descriptive verbs rather than a generic confirmation.

"Apply settings" vs "OK"

"Load game" vs "OK"

"Delete file" vs "OK"

"Send email" vs "OK"

"Print" vs "OK"

and so on.

[1]: https://developer.apple.com/design/human-interface-guideline...

Re: Ok-Cancel versus Cancel-Ok

#163
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really, Ok can be a verb. You can “Ok” a change.

In English, you can verb any noun ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_(word_formation)#Ve... , https://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/1993/01/25 )

One can verb nouns in lots of languages, English just happens to have "0-derivation" verbing of nouns ("photoshopped the picture", "googled Dan"). As well as "0-derivation" nouning of verbs ('did the user submit an "ok" or a "cancel"?').

Re: Ok-Cancel versus Cancel-Ok

#164

This has been a debate for as long as I've been a UX designer (mid '90s), and probably much longer. Ultimately, the answer about this UX style is very much the same as a question about writing style—there's no objectively right answer, but you have to be consistent. For example, you can pick up any number of style books from Strunk & White to the Chicago Manual of Style and get different "right" answers about writing…

Great summary. Another thing to note in the Factorio mockups is the use of a guideline that I originally picked up from the macOS HIG[1]: use descriptive verbs rather than a generic confirmation. "Apply settings" vs "OK" "Load game" vs "OK" "Delete file" vs "OK" "Send email" vs "OK" "Print" vs "OK" and so on. [1]: https://developer.apple.com/design/human-interface-guideline...

This is how it should be done.

People don't read the message in the popup. But when presented with a Delete button users start to think about what they are doing.

Also: 'Delete - Cancel' sets 'Cancel' in a much better context. You are going to cancel a delete action not an 'Ok' action.

Re: Ok-Cancel versus Cancel-Ok

#165

Technically, they're both wrong. Button labels should be verbs. The Cancel - Open example from OS X is the right way to do a dialog box.

As andoid camera delete confirm does: [Cancel][Delete] Translated to my locale: [Zrušiť][Zrušiť] Verbs can be wery (un)helpful.

Re: Ok-Cancel versus Cancel-Ok

#166
post #89

On macOS I have turned on the setting that lets one tab through all controls (System Preferences → Keyboard → Shortcuts → All controls). When a “Cancel OK” dialog appears, “OK” is the default choice (in blue) but Cancel is the highlighted one[1], presumably because it’s the first option. This is incredibly convenient because ↵ will activate “OK”, while pressing the space bar will activate “Cancel”. One gets used fast…

Wow, you have to manually activate such an option? On windows it's default.

One of the things i love about windows is that it's always been designed for keyboard only use, not just bolted on as an afterthought. Every dialog, widget, application and feature can be used with only the keyboard and it's fast, easy and predictable how to. Unfortunately since windows 8 there's been some regressions in this area with the new metro interface. Defaulting the underlined hotkey to off (since windows xp), was also a big mistake imo.

Re: Ok-Cancel versus Cancel-Ok

#167
I vote for Ok on the left (even though I have used macs for years) because Ok is the "normal," typical action. "Cancel" is only done when you've basically made a mistake by opening the dialog box. Since we read from left to right, someone working quickly will only have to read the first one to do the action without breaking their flow. If you are hitting cancel, your flow was already broken when you opened the dialog box.

Re: Ok-Cancel versus Cancel-Ok

#168

You want to know bad design of a cancel button? The lyft app when you want to cancel a ride has a "cancel" button that cancels the ride instead of cancelling the cancel. Accidentally cancelled a ride one time in the middle of it when I fat fingered the first button and then stabbed at "cancel" thinking it meant "abort" and not "ok, continue"...

Genuinely curious, what's a better way of doing this particular flow: user taps "cancel" dialogue asks "Are you sure" and presents options: "cancel" and... "cancel"?? What should the options/dialogue be?

One of the options should be "Continue your ride" or "Return to your ride". The second one should be "Cancel ride".

Or you use the default back button of your OS (top left in ios/windows or hardkey on android) and only provide the "cancel ride" button to move forward.

Re: Ok-Cancel versus Cancel-Ok

#169
post #109
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay/Confirm/Continue on the right is easier to hit with the mouse for me since it is in the corner of the window.

But why? Mouse pointer tends to be at a random position relative to a dialog window. According to GOMS, there should be no difference, unless one of the buttons touches screen border or is significantly closer.

Because it's always in the same place with respect to the frame around it, and therefore easier to visually locate.
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