Performance Reviews Are a Waste of Time • Hacker News Board

Re: Performance Reviews Are a Waste of Time

#161

Post by magice » Wed, Jun 06, 2018, 7:12 PM UTC

Hmm. Yet another day, yet another bashing of performance review. Very sad.

I will readily agree that most common systems unnecessarily bundle multiple high stake issues. For example, most people (me included from time to time) stop listening past "you get a raise of x%" in an annual review.

However, 1 wrong thing (i.e. unnecessary bundling") doesn't invalidate whole whole process.

For example, most performance processes involve goal-setting (I don't know about you, but I find that very very appealing), performance evaluation against goals, soft skill review (i.e. how much do you stress out your teammates?), and plan of action for the next year. Have I received career changing advices through performance review? You bet I have. For example, I pick software engineering because of distribution of my grades (performance review at K12 level!). For another example, don't make stupid & potentially misunderstood jokes.

Sure, continuous & informal feedbacks are important. However, so are formal processes, including feedback and evaluation. Have I improved? How the hell would I know if I don't have things noted down? Should I be promoted? How the hell would another person know if there is no papertrail of evidence of excellence? What am I good at? What role should I play in this team? How should I grow? All of these questions require careful contemplation over behaviors and performance in a long period (a year or at least a few months). Maybe all of you Bill Gates are so smart that you don't need them. But I am mere mortal, and I love feedback.

So, for the love of craftmanship, dedicate time and resources to performance review. It will only matter WHEN YOU MAKE IT MATTER. That's the thing. You can drive the best car the in the world badly if you hate driving. Similarly, if you think that you are so smart that no system can properly evaluate you, well, the system will fail. To be more precise, you fail the system.

Re: Performance Reviews Are a Waste of Time

#162

Post by stealthmodeclan » Wed, Jun 06, 2018, 7:12 PM UTC

MBCook wrote: post #24

When I went from a small company to a much much larger one I was amazed at the amount of time that was wasted on the performance review cycle every year. They spend SO MUCH time on it, for a thing that is mostly irrelevant to how things seem to operate. It’s not like drastic changes are being made to peoples’ salaries or hours off it. Or job titles.

Imagine if company fired someone. They can sue the company. And what if there is no evidence of degrading performance against this employee?

Re: Performance Reviews Are a Waste of Time

#163

Post by iamcasen » Wed, Jun 06, 2018, 7:12 PM UTC

Swizec wrote: post #62

arcticbull wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best/worst advice I ever received was "you're doing a great job of what I ask you to, now I need you to do what I don't ask you to" -- at the time, it made no sense. Now, it's a core part of my work style. Developing autonomy is a very valuable skill, and I think that's what OP is driving at. It's also not something that'd been developed during my education. I agree that performance reviews aren't particularly he…

> now I need you to do what I don’t ask you to Now I need you to make me want to. And no that doesn’t necessarily mean you have to reward me, often it’s enough to feel like I won’t get in trouble for going the extra mile, or that at the very least it will be noticed when I do. There’s only so often a person will give suggestions and extra effort to a lukewarm or negative response before they say fuck it and stop cari…

That's exactly it. A boss can't ask for initiative, unless they offer autonomy. Autonomy means you might do things differently than your boss would, so they need to be open to listening to you and letting you direct your efforts in the best way you know how.

Re: Performance Reviews Are a Waste of Time

#164

Post by rhizome » Wed, Jun 06, 2018, 7:13 PM UTC

rrggrr wrote: post #22

I was a young employee during a recession, and finding work was difficult. When I landed my first job I was I was grateful and focused on ways I might make my work contribute to the company's bottom line, by pushing the limits of my job description and tasks to ensure my role impacted revenue and value creation. I appreciated training and feedback, but forced myself to deliver results autonomously through self-teachi…

I empathize with a lot of this, but man...you gotta tell people when they do a good job. By "good job" I mean that they did work that furthered the goals of the people who lead the company (since companies per se don't have goals).

Re: Performance Reviews Are a Waste of Time

#165

Post by cornholio » Wed, Jun 06, 2018, 7:13 PM UTC

markbnj wrote: post #141

ordinaryperson wrote: post #126

Defending performance reviews is like cheerleading taxes -- automatic way to accrue downvotes here, but bear with me. I've lived through unfair, biased and unhelpful perf reviews, I know what it's like to have this sky beam open up out of nowhere and vaporize you over absurd nonsense, but in a company of > 100 people you need a paper record of performance. If you're a VP and suddenly someone asks, "Hey, can you promo…

> If you're a VP and suddenly someone asks, "Hey, can you promote or fire Person X?" What are you to go off of? Just a manager's recommendation? And you think perf reviews are biased? This is why I don't work for large orgs anymore. If you can't trust the manager's recommendation then why is that person a manager, in a position of power over people's lives? It's almost like acknowledging that you're too big to know w…

> If you can't trust the manager's recommendation then why is that person a manager, in a position of power over people's lives? It's almost like acknowledging that you're too big to know whether your people can be trusted or not, so you need formalized checks and balances.

People come into positions of authority for very varied reasons. Some might be very technically apt, others might have earned the trust of the founders or some were simply the only people available in a period of rapid growth. You absolutely cannot trust human nature, abuse and incompetence is always a risk and startups are not magically immune.

What might happen in a small company is that a bad manager is so obviously inadequate and has such a significant relative impact over the company that it's easily spotted and fixed without a formal system. But there are no guarantees, see for example the case of Sunny Balwani, a painfully incompetent software guy running the engineering department of a biotech startup, simply because he was the boyfriend of the CEO. He clung on as Theranos valuation balloned to a $10 billion and only got out after the company failed for essentially tech reasons.

Re: Performance Reviews Are a Waste of Time

#166

Post by scarface74 » Wed, Jun 06, 2018, 7:13 PM UTC

w0mbat wrote: post #159

scarface74 wrote: post #145

I don't really care either way about performance reviews. I've found the difference between average and superior amounts to no more than 2% raise if that. I base my own "performance review" on my skillset and what the market is paying. If the market is willing to pay me more than the company I'm working for - it's time to jump ship. But I don't ignore performance reviews. I take them as constructive criticism. Even i…

At some companies the difference in stock and bonus is a fuck ton of money. At Netflix the difference is also between being fired or not. Seriously, a Netflix HR person gave a public speech saying that they fire people for only average performance.

In the grand scheme of things. A minuscule number of developers work at a company where stock and bonuses are that big of a deal. In fact, when recruiters mention "bonuses" as part of compensation, I mostly ignore it. I've seen "bonuses" dangled in front of employees too often as an excuse for not giving raises and motivating people to put in 60+ hour work weeks.

Re: Performance Reviews Are a Waste of Time

#167

Post by TheOtherHobbes » Wed, Jun 06, 2018, 7:13 PM UTC

Thriptic wrote: post #152

exelius wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No offense, but this is the kind of thinking that leads to workplace bias. Working styles like this tend to reinforce hiring single, young men who are otherwise unencumbered so they can work long hours and push the envelope of the job description. That leads to a lot of group think, and products that are built for a very small subset of users — so there is real business value in diversity. Reviews are important for s…

> That leads to a lot of group think, and products that are built for a very small subset of users — so there is real business value in diversity. I am not sure this is true to the extent that people want it to be. You see the main benefits of diversity when groups of users use products in different ways depending on who they are. However, a large majority of products are used the same way by all people (almost all b…

Ultimately it's not about the value the people generate for a business, but the value a business generates for the people.

Re: Performance Reviews Are a Waste of Time

#168

Post by exelius » Wed, Jun 06, 2018, 7:15 PM UTC

Thriptic wrote: post #152

exelius wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No offense, but this is the kind of thinking that leads to workplace bias. Working styles like this tend to reinforce hiring single, young men who are otherwise unencumbered so they can work long hours and push the envelope of the job description. That leads to a lot of group think, and products that are built for a very small subset of users — so there is real business value in diversity. Reviews are important for s…

> That leads to a lot of group think, and products that are built for a very small subset of users — so there is real business value in diversity. I am not sure this is true to the extent that people want it to be. You see the main benefits of diversity when groups of users use products in different ways depending on who they are. However, a large majority of products are used the same way by all people (almost all b…

I’m not talking about preferential hiring; I’m talking about removing bias from the hiring process. This must be done by the company because I guarantee the prospective employee is doing everything they can to try to virtue-signal the company in the ways they know work.

There’s an entire industry devoted to helping women and minorities better integrate with the business climate (Lean In, et al). I guarantee these people are doing a ton of work just to be able to “fit in” and close the cultural gap.

In that context, it’s not unreasonable to ask companies to do something as well. The workers most definitely are.

Re: Performance Reviews Are a Waste of Time

#169

Post by Avshalom » Wed, Jun 06, 2018, 7:17 PM UTC

ordinaryperson wrote: post #126

Defending performance reviews is like cheerleading taxes -- automatic way to accrue downvotes here, but bear with me. I've lived through unfair, biased and unhelpful perf reviews, I know what it's like to have this sky beam open up out of nowhere and vaporize you over absurd nonsense, but in a company of > 100 people you need a paper record of performance. If you're a VP and suddenly someone asks, "Hey, can you promo…

>> Just a manager's recommendation? And you think perf reviews are biased?

But a perf review is just a manager's recommendation.

Re: Performance Reviews Are a Waste of Time

#170

Post by greggman » Wed, Jun 06, 2018, 7:18 PM UTC

ordinaryperson wrote: post #126

Defending performance reviews is like cheerleading taxes -- automatic way to accrue downvotes here, but bear with me. I've lived through unfair, biased and unhelpful perf reviews, I know what it's like to have this sky beam open up out of nowhere and vaporize you over absurd nonsense, but in a company of > 100 people you need a paper record of performance. If you're a VP and suddenly someone asks, "Hey, can you promo…

what bugs me about performance reviews is feeling like I'm a copywriter writing ad copy for products. I have to try to come up with flowery text about the 5-10 major things I did rather than just "did x" which is already known.

the only part of perf atbmy last job I thought was useful was ranking my peers. I'm not saying my ranking was correct but I'm just guessing those ranked high or low more often probably deserve a look?