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A 64-year-old put his life savings in his carry-on, and U.S. Customs took it

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Re: A 64-year-old put his life savings in his carry-on, and U.S. Customs took it

#161

Post by [deleted] »

cf498 wrote: post #91
lewis500 wrote: post #55

Only as I get older do I realize how incredibly bad elements of law enforcement in the US can be, and legally so. Few cops and agents are bad, but it is a system with little filtering, personally or institutionally, of the bad elements. Civil asset forfeiture is overwhelmingly unpopular, but when states try to reform it the law enforcement groups rally around it mightily. Essentially they want the right to steal mone…

As an outside perspective, how do you quantify, that only "Few cops and agents are bad". If your job contains robbing people, I would rationally word it the other way around. Hopefully there are quite a few cops who dont follow the rules and subvert the system of organized theft. But if you take policies like civil forfeiture or for example police union cards for family members this sounds like organized crime to qui…

[deleted]

Re: A 64-year-old put his life savings in his carry-on, and U.S. Customs took it

#162

Post by wafflebear »

ra1n85 wrote: post #111
iforgotpassword wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't wrap my head around how you can see it as positive that these kind of actions would go unpunished, in the name of "freedom". If I were harassed and bullied I'd not feel very free, but rather anxious, threatened, depressed. I'm quite happy my government takes measures to assure a certain level of personal safety, both physical and psychological.

> I'm quite happy my government takes measures to assure a certain level of personal safety, both physical and psychological. All except for terrorist attacks, which are considered part and parcel of living in a big city[1] like London (but strangely not Tokyo which has 4-5m more citizens!). [1] https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/new-york-explosion-sad...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_subway_sarin_attack

Re: A 64-year-old put his life savings in his carry-on, and U.S. Customs took it

#163

Post by gowld »

tluyben2 wrote: post #62

What is the rationale behind civil forfeiture? Besides a convenient way to get more funds into the state pocket if you don’t like someone’s face? I first saw it in The Shield (still one of my favorite shows) and remember thinking that it looks more like some army controlled region in Africa or something than a civilized country. But yeah, so does privatising prisons.

The rationale, such as it is, is that proving guilt beyond a reasonable doubt is too hard, and the Constitution does not apply to civil forfeiture (civil=$$$, criminal=imprisonment). The 4th Amendment (unreasonable searches and seizures) is quietly ignored.

Re: A 64-year-old put his life savings in his carry-on, and U.S. Customs took it

#164

Post by user982 »

stordoff wrote: post #138
galieos_ghost wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>UK Your government currently arrests people for criticizing the government online, covers up child-rape gangs, arrests people for reporting on those cover ups, and mandates whether citizens should receive health care or die, regardless of whether they have the money to pay for it in a foreign country. Your government took 1984 and used it as a blueprint. Your government see you as an actual human, they see you as th…

> Your government currently arrests people for criticizing the government online Citation needed - I have _never_ heard of this happening. > covers up child-rape gangs Mostly local government and the police, not central government (who organised an inquiry into it). > mandates whether citizens should receive health care or die For the NHS, _maybe_, and even then it is only limiting care on the very fringes. Nothing i…

> > Your government currently arrests people for criticizing the government online

> Citation needed - I have _never_ heard of this happening.

A British teenager was arrested and charged for posting on Facebook that UK soldiers should go to hell.[0]

[0]: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/libertycentral/201...

Re: A 64-year-old put his life savings in his carry-on, and U.S. Customs took it

#165

Post by ra1n85 »

gowld wrote: post #139
opo wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>...You can't yell fire in a crowded theater. Wrong. https://www.popehat.com/2012/09/19/three-generations-of-a-ha... >...The only difference is they've chosen to draw the line somewhere just offset from what you're used to. There's still a line in these here United States. It looks like the US probably has the strongest free speech protections of any country in the world - that isn't a bad thing.

Those free speech protections have been implicated in an ongoing series of terrorist murders, which is a bad thing. https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2014/04/17/splc-report-n... > Almost 100 people were murdered over the last five years by registered users of Stormfront, the largest racist Web forum in the world, according to a report released today by the Southern Poverty Law Center.

>Those free speech protections have been implicated in an ongoing series of terrorist murders, which is a bad thing.

How did free speech carry out terrorist murders?

Re: A 64-year-old put his life savings in his carry-on, and U.S. Customs took it

#166

Post by warent »

mnm1 wrote: post #110
warent wrote: post #52

A huge problem here is that the government has zero skin in the game. Random people working for some three letter agency are able to plunge you into a bureaucratic labyrinth at the flick of a wrist, and even violate their own guidelines with an extremely low probability of accountability or repercussion. For example: > Under federal forfeiture law, the government was required to initiate a forfeiture case within 90 d…

You start holing these cops personally accountable for this or any of the massive amounts of other disgusting actions they commit on a daily basis and I guarantee this fixes itself overnight. Cop murders someone, electric chair. Cops steals money, they pay back their entire life savings. It's about time we hold public servants to a higher set of standards rather than a lower one. If only there were such incentives, t…

This isn't what I intended to communicate at all. Lower level personnel behaving badly is just a symptom of the real problem, and punishing them would be an easy scapegoat for higher up authority.

Just like with a toxic CEO in a company, firing some employees isn't a long term solution to fixing the culture. The leaders, the heads of the departments, is where the accountability should be.

Re: A 64-year-old put his life savings in his carry-on, and U.S. Customs took it

#167

Post by orf »

ra1n85 wrote: post #146
orf wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until that was immediately challenged and sensibly lifted 3 days later. It was only introduced as an extension to the already existing reporting restrictions on the trial that he broke. The judge quite sensibly didn't want that case, sure to get lots of attention, to rub off on his ongoing court case which has existing reporting restrictions . I'm also sure America could teach us a lot about gag orders though. Stick…

>Until that was immediately challenged and sensibly lifted 3 days later. After he was sentenced and in jail. Love the coarse metric of British "sensibility"! Sounds like we need a "sensibility spectrum" to measure this all against. Would really love to stack my freedom and property against that sturdy and immutable post of justice!

> After he was sentenced and in jail.

... As he should be, for breaking a court order in the most ridiculous manner. Twice.

> Would really love to stack my freedom and property against that sturdy and immutable post of justice!

You are aware that you're commenting on a post about how a citizens freedom and property where taken without any due process? And how that happens a lot? And how it's legal?

I feel like you're just looking to be triggered by something, and this man breaking two court orders gets you going, so we might as well end it here.

Re: A 64-year-old put his life savings in his carry-on, and U.S. Customs took it

#168

Post by gowld »

mnm1 wrote: post #103

So the police steal as much as everyone else combined, but it's still only a few bad apples? Every last beat cop on up (especially if they are part of a union) is a bad, rotten apple. Every single one of these cops are propping up ridiculous systems of mass theft and murder orchestrated by their colleagues and their counterparts in prosecutors' offices. These people have no concept of justice or fairness or serving o…

> the police steal as much as everyone else combined

No, that's a "fake news" myth.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/11/23/cops-...

> If you add up all the property stolen in 2014, from burglary, theft, motor vehicle theft and other means, you arrive at roughly $12.3 billion,

> The total value of asset forfeitures was more than one-third of the total value of property stolen by criminals in 2014.

Re: A 64-year-old put his life savings in his carry-on, and U.S. Customs took it

#169

Post by celticninja »

refurb wrote: post #29
orf wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A thousand times this. I'm not saying the UK is some shining beacon of how to run a country but I do think overall our governmental systems are pretty sensible . I think being sensible might be a stereotypical English trait, but it's true. For example you have to comply with the spirit of a law, not the exact text. Also our QC's are pretty level headed and the same goes for our police force. Nobody is overly nitpicky…

You mean like arresting people when they say something the gov't doesn't like? [1] I'll take a pass, thank you. [1] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/arrests-for-offensive-...

But that's not criticising the government, you could call the government a bunch of cunts and no one is coming to arrest you. But if you harass an individual then that individual can use the government to prevent further harassment. This sort of malicious communication was illegal before the intern but now it is easier to commit it as you don't need to know where someone lives to send a letter, you can tweet them without leaving the house. In the past I imagine you had to do something pretty bad to get lots and lots of hate mail (takes a bit of effort to write the letter and send it ) but these days you could wear the wrong colour shirt and end up on the internets shit list and have your inbox or Twitter feed deluged in seconds.

Re: A 64-year-old put his life savings in his carry-on, and U.S. Customs took it

#170

Post by ridgeguy »

cf498 wrote: post #91
lewis500 wrote: post #55

Only as I get older do I realize how incredibly bad elements of law enforcement in the US can be, and legally so. Few cops and agents are bad, but it is a system with little filtering, personally or institutionally, of the bad elements. Civil asset forfeiture is overwhelmingly unpopular, but when states try to reform it the law enforcement groups rally around it mightily. Essentially they want the right to steal mone…

As an outside perspective, how do you quantify, that only "Few cops and agents are bad". If your job contains robbing people, I would rationally word it the other way around. Hopefully there are quite a few cops who dont follow the rules and subvert the system of organized theft. But if you take policies like civil forfeiture or for example police union cards for family members this sounds like organized crime to qui…

I don't think it matters whether few or many cops or agents are bad.

The source of harm is the forfeiture law.

With such laws in place, even a single bad actor can do enormous damage. We need to repeal the civil forfeiture laws.

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