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U.S. Launches Criminal Probe into Bitcoin Price Manipulation

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Re: U.S. Launches Criminal Probe into Bitcoin Price Manipulation

#161

Post by [deleted] »

tomjakubowski wrote: post #127
DINKDINK wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there was a problem redeeming Tether for USD, you'd expect that the market price distortion of Tether. But it hasn't[1] https://www.tradingview.com/chart/?symbol=POLONIEX:USDTUSD >they've created 2.8 BILLION USDT Absolute numbers are meaningless and less eye catching when they're compared to the entire market. 2.8 ~ ~ Billion ~ ~ USDT is only 0.5%-0.8% of the market. Do you really think that a 300-500 billion doll…

> What can be said about Tether: it's a trusted third party that's vulnerable to fractional reserve What? Isn't the entire friggin point of Tether that it's _not_ a fractional reserve system? From their own FAQ (emphasis mine): > All tethers are pegged at one-to-one with matching fiat currency (e.g., 1 USD₮ = 1 USD) and are backed 100% by actual assets in our reserve account. https://tether.to/faqs/

[deleted]

Re: U.S. Launches Criminal Probe into Bitcoin Price Manipulation

#162

Post by coinme »

DINKDINK wrote: post #99
tptacek wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, not necessarily. Ponzi schemes can survive redemptions for years or even decades; they blow up when there's finally a run.

You're confusing a Ponzi scheme and fractional reserve. Two very different systems.

Tether is claimed to be fully backed by USD. If it is not then it quickly ends up being an effective Ponzi scheme.

Re: U.S. Launches Criminal Probe into Bitcoin Price Manipulation

#164

Post by Nursie »

paulie_a wrote: post #157
Nursie wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It makes perfect sense. If many people are trying to BUY USDT (increasing demand for USDT) the price of USDT will increase. Why? It's worth exactly one dollar. Which they have in an account. That's the point. The price of the other cryptocurrency will come down, and the value of USDT compared to that cryptocurrency will indeed rise, as it should when people want to sell to a market where there's more demand on doll…

There's zero proof they have anything in there account.

Well indeed! But that's how it's supposed to work.

Re: U.S. Launches Criminal Probe into Bitcoin Price Manipulation

#165

Post by [deleted] »

chrisco255 wrote: post #125
shiado wrote: post #120

The mechanics of manipulating price are just too easy not to do it. The wash trading is clearly so bad on many exchanges that I bet there are agreements with the miners to recuperate losses to trading fees. It is in all parties interest to prop the price up this way so why wouldn't they do it. So many sketchy things get ignored because they prop the price up. The USDT situation will get interesting eventually. Somebo…

Tether will just be replaced by other stable coins if it turns out that Bitfinex can't back them if there were a run on Tethers (the only scenario we would find if this were actually true). There are alternative stable coins which will rise to compete with Tether and balance out the market, including Circle's USDC ( https://blog.circle.com/2018/05/15/circle-announces-usd-coin... ) and the ETH/Gold-backed MakerDAI: (…

[deleted]

Re: U.S. Launches Criminal Probe into Bitcoin Price Manipulation

#166

Post by sireat »

DINKDINK wrote: post #87
sine wrote: post #5

For anyone who hasn't been following, the prevailing theory is that the largest Cryptocoin exchange "Bitfinex" also runs an altcoin called "Teather" which was marketed as being backed 1:1 by USD. So far they've created 2.8 BILLION USDT and coincidently the times they create millions of these happens to be in the middle of extreme market crashes. See this chart: https://i.imgur.com/Uo07d1d.jpg More details here: https…

If there was a problem redeeming Tether for USD, you'd expect that the market price distortion of Tether. But it hasn't[1] https://www.tradingview.com/chart/?symbol=POLONIEX:USDTUSD >they've created 2.8 BILLION USDT Absolute numbers are meaningless and less eye catching when they're compared to the entire market. 2.8 ~ ~ Billion ~ ~ USDT is only 0.5%-0.8% of the market. Do you really think that a 300-500 billion doll…

Did you read the article you posted?

It makes the point that it is in fact possible to influence the market with pennies on the dollar.

Remember that market cap is meaningless while no matter how USDT were created(backed or not) those represent at least some fiat inflows.

My personal opinion: Tether initially had some USD backing maybe not 100%. Now, I'd be surprised if Tether has backing in excess of 10%.

That is still enough to control Tether if you have issuing authority and can limit redemptions for fiat.

In fact Bitfinex/Tether has done exactly that. You would be hard pressed to redeem Tether for dollars.

Re: U.S. Launches Criminal Probe into Bitcoin Price Manipulation

#167

Post by ttul »

pathseeker wrote: post #126
DINKDINK wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there was a problem redeeming Tether for USD, you'd expect that the market price distortion of Tether. But it hasn't[1] https://www.tradingview.com/chart/?symbol=POLONIEX:USDTUSD >they've created 2.8 BILLION USDT Absolute numbers are meaningless and less eye catching when they're compared to the entire market. 2.8 ~ ~ Billion ~ ~ USDT is only 0.5%-0.8% of the market. Do you really think that a 300-500 billion doll…

If tether isn't a scam, why have then not yet found an auditor willing to actually audit them?

This.

Re: U.S. Launches Criminal Probe into Bitcoin Price Manipulation

#168

Post by ttul »

HyperTalk2 wrote: post #7
sine wrote: post #5

For anyone who hasn't been following, the prevailing theory is that the largest Cryptocoin exchange "Bitfinex" also runs an altcoin called "Teather" which was marketed as being backed 1:1 by USD. So far they've created 2.8 BILLION USDT and coincidently the times they create millions of these happens to be in the middle of extreme market crashes. See this chart: https://i.imgur.com/Uo07d1d.jpg More details here: https…

They created another $250 million worth just one week ago. https://omniexplorer.info/address/3MbYQMMmSkC3AgWkj9FMo5LsPT...

So, who are “they” and where is all this fiat going? That’s a great and yet unanswered question. If Tether was real, then KPMG would be glad to audit them..

Re: U.S. Launches Criminal Probe into Bitcoin Price Manipulation

#169

Post by ttul »

seppel wrote: post #149
qiqing wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that there was a confusing UI where people who intended to sell bitcoin for USD actually selected USDT by default. And one reason they might hold them is because they can't figure out how to exchange them for USD. I mean, I'm sure there must be some people who bought USDT when that was their intention, but there are also a bunch who bought it by accident.

But you can easily buy BTC using USDT and then sell the BTC somewhere for real USD. Where are the reports of people stuck with USDT?

Nobody will be stuck with USDT until the Ponzi scheme is finally revealed in the form of an indictment. Until then, investors don’t hesitate to hold a few USDT now and then, because the likelihood of being stuck with them when it all goes to hell is small.

Re: U.S. Launches Criminal Probe into Bitcoin Price Manipulation

#170

Post by vkou »

fastball wrote: post #113
vkou wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not just put it into USD when they are done for the day?

Crypto/Fiat transactions are much more expensive than Crpyto/Crypto transactions. Why impact your bottom line if you don't need to?

Why is exchanging 1 BTC into 10,000 USD on an exchange more expensive then exchanging 1 BTC into 10,000 USDT - as long as you don't withdraw it?

Is it because you don't trust the exchange to honor your USD withdrawal the next morning?

What makes you trust that Bitfinex is more likely to honor USDT to USD exchanges the next morning?

It's almost certain that USDT isn't actually backed 1:1 by USD. If it were, it would be trivially auditable. You're just moving yourself from one category of potential risk (Your exchange steals your USD), into a category of almost certain risk (The shoe drops and we discover that USDT was a scam all along.)

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