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Emissions of banned, ozone-depleting chemical CFC-11 have climbed 25% since 2012

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Re: Emissions of banned, ozone-depleting chemical CFC-11 have climbed 25% since 2012

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Why has an “ozone hole” appeared over Antarctica when ozone-depleting substances are present throughout the stratosphere?" [PDF] https://www.esrl.noaa.gov/csd/assessments/ozone/2010/twentyq...

This was an interesting read. > chlorine and bromine reactions to produce the ozone hole in Antarctic springtime Why isn't chlorine and bromine considered just as bad as CFCs, if they are in fact the chemicals causing the problem? > ...most of the emissions occur in the Northern Hemisphere." > ...winds and convection redistribute and mix air efficiently throughout the troposphere on the timescale of weeks to months*…

I think you will find some answers in other articles from the series (especially Q8 and Q9), all of which are available at https://www.esrl.noaa.gov/csd/assessments/ozone/2014/twentyq...

I will just point out about the gas diffusion that up to ~100km or so above ground turbulent mixing is the prevalent force. You can look at concentration of argon gas (Ar2 ~80g/mol) which also does not change in that altitude.

About the PSC particles 'falling from gravity' keep in mind these are no longer gases (the operative word is 'particles') so you want to look at their density not molecular weight. (Simplistically, one mol of any gas is 22.4 L while one mol of water/ice is ~0.018 L.)

Re: Emissions of banned, ozone-depleting chemical CFC-11 have climbed 25% since 2012

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There isn't a controversy.

Then why are people mad at me for asking about it? Plenty of other commenters claim I am stirring the pot, how is this possible if there is no controversy?

You say you are "asking about it" but really you demanded that people reconcile your ill-informed reasoning with the pretty well established science. That's not a controversy, it's trolling. Maybe you did it by accident, but it's trolling.

Re: Emissions of banned, ozone-depleting chemical CFC-11 have climbed 25% since 2012

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gases don't go to one place; they go everywhere including that place. Attention to the ozone problem is what leads the discussion in a direction of asking or explaining "how CFCs got to the poles." Nobody asks how CFCs get to, I dunno, 15 miles above Scranton. But the lack of asking does not at all imply that there are no CFCs above Scranton. There is extra attention paid to the poles because an ozone hole appears th…

> ...it diffuses throughout the room... That was the lesson I was taught yes. But consider how much scent would have to be released to smell that same smell for 70 years, across the whole planet. I've read some articles on this linked here, and I see that there are many claims about what is happening, but in one PDF linked above this statement was made. > The role of PSC particles in converting reactive chlorine gase…

Sure, question away, but if people are supposed to agree with you, you kind of need to supply some data or evidence. Skepticism is more than just saying "nothing is really known for sure" or "people have been wrong before." That argument won't overturn the prosecution's case in a court of law for example. What they test for in court, and in science, is reasonable doubt. Give them a reason to doubt, and absolutely they should doubt. People should reconsider their opinions when presented with contrary data. The problem is that you're not presenting any data. The people you're arguing against, have presented data.

At their peak in 1989 before the Montreal Protocol went into effect (and a strangely coincidental multi-year observed trend began of rising ozone concentrations over Antarctica), CFCs were at a concentration of about 2 parts per billion. 70 years of humans releasing them worldwide could absolutely produce that, especially when you consider the long lifespan of those molecules. And they're a catalyst for the ozone breakdown reaction, not one of the reagents; so like most catalysts, they don't get used up, and like most catalysts, there is very little required in the first place.

The classroom experiment might be leading you to overestimate how much CFC output would be required. Probably because the threshold concentration required for half of people to detect a smell -- let's say of ammonia, like after cleaning something with it, or in your cat's litter box, or near a place where people have been pissing -- has to be about 5 parts per million or 2,500 times as much as the peak CFC concentration in 1989. For ethyl alcohol, that cops seem able to smell like bloodhounds when they pull you over, the odor detection threshold is about twice that, or 5,000 times the peak CFC concentration. On the other hand you can smell hydrogen sulfide at only about 20% of the CFC amount, so hey. Maybe it's not a relevant experiment? Except to illustrate the concept of diffusion, which I already addressed satisfactorily, but now your concerns have shifted like a moving target to something else.

How quickly an answer was found in 1985 has nothing to do with that answer's veracity. If a mosquito bites me in the ass, I figure it out right away; that doesn't mean there's no mosquito on my ass. How long an answer remains the accepted answer has nothing to do with its veracity either, which I think is what you're pointing out, but that also cuts both ways; its longevity doesn't falsify it, for example. If I'm right-handed for 40 years do I start to doubt my "handedness" because it didn't change often enough over the years? Because it's suspiciously consistent?? If anything the opposite happens, and it's the same in the science world: There are many professional, honest and earnest people out there making measurements and reporting the results. And if someone made a discovery that could overturn the prevailing ozone depletion theory, there is every incentive both professional and otherwise, to do so. That person only has to publish their data.

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