Study Shows a Productivity Boost of Working From Home • Hacker News Board

Re: Study Shows a Productivity Boost of Working From Home

#161

Post by potatote » Fri, May 11, 2018, 12:52 PM UTC

I've been working from home once a week in the past couple of months, and noticed that I spend more time working at home than I do in the office. For example, if I work from home, I'd be working from 8am to 6pm (with a few short breaks for lunch and etc.). If I go to work, I clock in at 8:30am (commute) and checks out at 5:30pm sharp.

In a way, my employer is getting an extra 30-60 mins out of me for the days I work from home (assuming that I'm as productive working from home as I am at the office, which I believe is to be the case).

Re: Study Shows a Productivity Boost of Working From Home

#162

Post by OpenDrapery » Fri, May 11, 2018, 1:00 PM UTC

frockington wrote: post #145

wolco wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of these items can be done remotely. Training/mentoring/team work/stand ups/taking accountibility. Showing clients you have employees working might seem like it will help land some clients if you bring them for a visit but more impressive is having a global remote team you can conference in.

You can't greet the client shake their hand and establish a connection over a video conference nearly as easily as you can in person. As a client I find myself paying attention to the little things. Did they offer coffee or water? Did they open the door? How was the handshake? Did they look trustworthy? If you are remoting in a global team it will be more difficult to provide the experience.

I love the idea that we want to find the smartest people we can find, and hire them. Then tell them they need to drive in to an office every day and fill a seat, on the .01% chance that a client might drop in.

Yeah that makes way more sense than just saying, "hey a client is coming in on Thursday, everyone assume your positions! And for FSM's sake, look like you're collaborating!"

Re: Study Shows a Productivity Boost of Working From Home

#163

Post by throwawaymath » Fri, May 11, 2018, 1:00 PM UTC

adriand wrote: post #114

I think it depends on what you want to optimize for. If you want to optimize for individual productivity (and there are no trust issues) then sure, working from home is effective. However, you may decide that the individual productivity loss of having people work in an office is outweighed by the group productivity and morale gain from having people working together. Here are some reasons from a holistic company pers…

This comment seems like a great microcosm of remote work discussions on Hacker News. You didn't dismiss remote working in a thread about it, but you tried (maybe imperfectly) to suggest times when it would be a good idea to not work remotely. It is not being received well!

In response most commenters are criticizing your point by focusing on whether or not it is technically possible to achieve any of those things while working remotely, which is not your point. One person has even accused you of responding to data with anecdotes and opinion, and another has called your comment BS. Yikes!

Remote work kinda seems like a religious topic now. If you don't provide an airtight, empirical justification for why you're not in favor of remote work, you'll hear from people talking your ear off about how everything you suggested is absolutely possible in a remote setting. "But you can mentor someone remotely!", or "You can collaborate super effectively on a remote team if you just do ..." People are talking about "valid reasons" to be working in an office instead of working remotely, as though remote working needs to be the default consideration. There's a disconnect here.

To conclude this pretentious meta-analysis of mine: I've worked remotely for four or five years now. I like it, it's cool. I can pick up groceries on a Monday when no one is at the store! But companies shouldn't have to defend why they don't support remote work. Universal telecommuting does not need to be the next step in our evolution as a society, and that's okay.

Re: Study Shows a Productivity Boost of Working From Home

#164

Post by lostcolony » Fri, May 11, 2018, 1:03 PM UTC

staticelf wrote: post #147

adamsea wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article: "More than half the volunteer group changed their minds about working from home 100 percent of the time--they felt too much isolation." And bear in mind that is from the group of people who _volunteered_ to work from home. It's reasonable to presume that a nontrivial number of people chose _not_ to volunteer because they valued in-person interactions. So, I call BS on your calling bullshit.

I work 100% from home. Altough I also feel a bit of isolation I kind of enjoy it most of the time and otherwise the benefits easily outweighs the negative stuff like isolation. But that is of course just me, there is no need to force people to work from home (unless the company do not have an office) but the issue is that most companies won't let you even if you want to.

I notice this report doesn't give the specifics. When they worked remotely, did they still have access to easy, painless, video conferencing? We have remote workers; we oftentimes broadcast them in a Bluejeans conference room on a TV near the people working on site, and it really changes the dynamic.

Similarly, I'd be interested in a survey after the fact to determine a person's social life outside of work. If people have an active one apart from work, I suspect 100% remote is more attractive. When a person's main sources of social contact are at work, I can see that taking a major hit; just water cooler chatter and shared lunches and things would be missed more if you don't have regular social activities.

Re: Study Shows a Productivity Boost of Working From Home

#165

Post by sdedovic » Fri, May 11, 2018, 1:03 PM UTC

adriand wrote: post #114

I think it depends on what you want to optimize for. If you want to optimize for individual productivity (and there are no trust issues) then sure, working from home is effective. However, you may decide that the individual productivity loss of having people work in an office is outweighed by the group productivity and morale gain from having people working together. Here are some reasons from a holistic company pers…

I agree but I found a mixed strategy worked best. Monday, Friday in the office. Wednesday, Thursday out.

That way I can get a feel for the week on Monday and a retrospective on Friday. Plus Fridays is usually the "Culture Building" day (taking it easy, maybe having a beer in the afternoon, playing some board games). And Monday's are great to catch up with the team after the weekend, bring donuts or some snacks in the morning.

The middle of the week is when I can just work and be productive, as a developer.

Obviously this isn't a strict schedule. It's just definitely easier for me to pump out my own work at my pace, i.e. "Maker's Schedule". And there is absolutely value in being in the office with the team as you stated above.

Re: Study Shows a Productivity Boost of Working From Home

#166

Post by OpenDrapery » Fri, May 11, 2018, 1:05 PM UTC

chrisan wrote: post #160

mamon wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not GP but I think that the point is that the whole "corporate culture" is mostly bullshit - you wouldn't expect factory or farm workers to form a "culture" and "take pride in their work" or "share company values", so why are you expecting all of this from knowledge workers? For me the whole "corporate culture" thing is just an attempt to brainwash people into accepting lower salary, because "we are changing the worl…

Ya I don’t think I’ve ever been in a “corporate culture” that wasn’t a facade.

I think when I was younger, I wanted to believe in it. But, yes, now that I'm older and I reflect, I don't think I've ever been part of one that wasn't fake.

There are the owners/middle management/laborers. To trick the laborers into thinking that they are part of something is pretty brilliant though.

Re: Study Shows a Productivity Boost of Working From Home

#167

Post by saiya-jin » Fri, May 11, 2018, 1:06 PM UTC

sheeshkebab wrote: post #138

adriand wrote: post #114

I think it depends on what you want to optimize for. If you want to optimize for individual productivity (and there are no trust issues) then sure, working from home is effective. However, you may decide that the individual productivity loss of having people work in an office is outweighed by the group productivity and morale gain from having people working together. Here are some reasons from a holistic company pers…

In thech companies, the only valid reason to be in the office is that often times upper management (those who pay bills/salaries) are restless crowd that can’t sit in one place staring at screen and have grand desire to run around the floor watching people “work”. The rest of your points are absolute bull shit that can all be done remotely.

> To provide mentorship to junior staff.

good luck doing that/pair programming for whole day via skype. yes it can be done, in an ineffective and frustrating way. rest of the points can be also be discussed in similar fashion

Re: Study Shows a Productivity Boost of Working From Home

#168

Post by lostcolony » Fri, May 11, 2018, 1:10 PM UTC

cameldrv wrote: post #91

ak39 wrote: post #13

First para hits the nail on the head. The issue is: trust between managers and employees. Also, "work from home" paradigm will only succeed when management paradigm changes from managing time to managing outcome. And changing that management style is not easy. Managing outcomes requires managers to understand not only the strategic agendas set by the bosses higher up but also the technical paths to achieve them confr…

Trust is a continuum. If I'm a manager, I can't afford to know every single detail of what you're doing. Managing outcome sounds nice, but suppose I assign you a task that I think will take two days in my limited understanding, and it takes you two weeks. I have to figure out the cause. Some common ones are: 1. Neither of us understood the full complexity of the task at the outset. If we want to improve, we'll have t…

You will never be blindsided by #1. Because if the person finds it will be more complex than initial estimates they will tell you ASAP. If they don't, the problem is #4, not #1.

You -should- never be blindsided by #3. Because that's why daily standups exist. That's why tasking out a story. If the person is going down blind alleys, the -process- should be what brings that out, via daily standup or whatever. No amount of colocation will fix that, only explicit communication. You're not going to passively observe someone going down blind alleys.

Re: Study Shows a Productivity Boost of Working From Home

#169

Post by lucb1e » Fri, May 11, 2018, 1:13 PM UTC

wolco wrote: post #128

Rainymood wrote: post #55

PhD student here so take my opinion with a grain of salt. I personally love the fact that I can choose to work at home or at the office. I can really concentrate at home (private room where I feel comfy) but on the other hand it is also significantly easier to distract yourself from work. Netflix is just one tab away and there's no one to look over your shoulder and whisper in your ear "Don't watch Netflix when you'r…

If watching netflix helps you work go ahead.

I think the point was to watch videos exclusively, not just to run something in the background.

Re: Study Shows a Productivity Boost of Working From Home

#170

Post by OpenDrapery » Fri, May 11, 2018, 1:16 PM UTC

cameldrv wrote: post #91

ak39 wrote: post #13

First para hits the nail on the head. The issue is: trust between managers and employees. Also, "work from home" paradigm will only succeed when management paradigm changes from managing time to managing outcome. And changing that management style is not easy. Managing outcomes requires managers to understand not only the strategic agendas set by the bosses higher up but also the technical paths to achieve them confr…

Trust is a continuum. If I'm a manager, I can't afford to know every single detail of what you're doing. Managing outcome sounds nice, but suppose I assign you a task that I think will take two days in my limited understanding, and it takes you two weeks. I have to figure out the cause. Some common ones are: 1. Neither of us understood the full complexity of the task at the outset. If we want to improve, we'll have t…

If I want to make a 2 hour task take an entire work day, I will do that whether I'm in the office or not. Sometimes devs need to coast a little. The notion that they will just continue to vigorously attach a backlog of monkey work is silly.

It's ok to treat adults with respect and empathy. Knowledge workers need more latitude to manage their pace.