Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Lyme Disease Is on the Rise Again

npr.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 182 posts

Re: Lyme Disease Is on the Rise Again

#161

Post by cody8295 »

cody8295 wrote: post #160

I live in Connecticut, where Lyme disease was discovered. I go hiking a lot and it's a big concern for many including me. I don't use sprays or anything I just wear light colored clothing and when possible (spring and fall) long pants. Wearing lighter colored clothing allows you to notice ticks before they get to your skin. And post hike, full body tick checks are mandatory. it's a good thing most don't bite until yo…

Forgot to mention, biggest tip I have is to avoid tall grass and don't touch any branches or bushes but if you do then check you hand and whole arm.

Re: Lyme Disease Is on the Rise Again

#162

Post by adsfqwop »

gamblor956 wrote: post #129
lymeeducator wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best treatment for Lyme is a balanced immune system. Some people can be treated by a single course of Doxycycline, most relapse after 6 months and CDC incorrectly indicates that the cause is unknown. It's still Lyme. 2 of the 3 Lyme forms are resistant to antibiotics. Proper treatment will take months, or longer if coinfected, and require multiple, pulsing of antibiotics or herbals (yes, they are quite effective…

Couldn't find any published scientific results on the efficacy of "herbal" treatment for lime disease or "pulsed" antibiotic treatments from websites/doctors that weren't trying to sell the treatment. Do you have any actual scientific evidence to back up your claims or are you part of what the New Yorker has termed the lyme quackery?

Herbal treatments can be quite helpful. Plants have developed compounds to fight various organisms over millions of years.

It's quite logical to assume, even without requiring a peer-reviewed double blind placebo controlled 100 million study, that nature has made it so, otherwise we would have single groups of organisms ruling the planet unhindered.

The fact that life on earth displays tremendous diversity and balance, from the macro level down to the micro level, means almost every organism has an equal and opposite adversary somewhere.

Plants and trees have a tremendous number of compounds developed over millions of years to fight diseases with. There is a reason, for example, that the Materia Medica for Chinese medicine is over 1300 pages of microscopic text. It's over 2000 years of accumulated experience on plant substances, while our modern pharmaceutical medicine is barely a few hundred years old.

There is also a reason why many pharmaceutical companies spend resources investigating and cataloging native plant substances. It's not that they want to sell herbal medicine, it's because they want to develop synthetic analogs for patenting purposes.

Which is also the reason you will never find as many scientific articles on herbal medicine, as you will find on pharmaceutical medicine. One is a billion dollar patent-protected industry, while the other is not.

Re: Lyme Disease Is on the Rise Again

#163

Post by cody8295 »

maxerickson wrote: post #69
nonbel wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something is wrong here. How did humanity survive living most of their lives outdoors for so long in the presence of these ticks? Did lyme disease really not exist until 1975? I see there is some kind of "blame everything on lyme disease" movement going on as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyme_disease_controversy

Tick populations have expanded greatly in recent years. Things like climate change and wildlife management practices are thought to be a factor. (warmer winters->less ticks die, more deer->more deer ticks)

A lot of people in Connecticut honestly believe Lyme disease was a direct result of Three Mile Island. I find the conspiracy hilarious but others take it as fact

Re: Lyme Disease Is on the Rise Again

#164

Post by mercutio2 »

Fomite wrote: post #103
jjeaff wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you said this in the south, you would get a good long laugh.

Not by any of my colleagues you wouldn't. And I'm an Epidemiologist who went to school in the South.

Your epidemiologist pals wouldn’t laugh at the idea of freezing thousands upon thousands of ticks every warm season?

I tend to think they would.

Tick borne illnesses are unfortunate, but for people who live in rural areas like I (and apparently jjeaff) have lived, where we would keep jars of isopropyl alcohol around in which everyone could put the the few dozen ticks they’d pick off their clothes and bodies during a one hour meeting, holding on to an individual tick just seems ridiculous.

If you get a red rash, or lethargy, by all means, go to the doctor. But in areas with high tick counts but low tick borne illness prevalence, tracking individual ticks just sounds silly.

Re: Lyme Disease Is on the Rise Again

#165

Post by lymeeducator »

lymeeducator wrote: post #110
dbbolton wrote: post #65

Here are some links to the CDC's statistics and maps on Lyme disease for those interested: https://www.cdc.gov/lyme/stats/graphs.html https://www.cdc.gov/lyme/stats/maps.html https://www.cdc.gov/lyme/stats/tables.html As an aside, it's tricky interpreting certain stats regarding epidemiology. The incidence is the number of new cases in the population in a given time frame, and prevalence is the total number of people…

The CDC is actually harmful with the misinformation and test suggestions they provide. I have Lyme, Bartonella, Mycoplasma, at least from 1 tick bite. Western medicine does a horrible job at analyzing the symptoms, testing, educating and treating their patients. The labs are pretty unreliable as are the antibody requirements for + test. 1) It's very common to get more than 1 infection from a single tick bite (CDC say…

My carriage returns were absent on the original post which I could not update. This should read better ;-)

The CDC is actually harmful with the misinformation and test suggestions they provide. I have Lyme, Bartonella, Mycoplasma, at least from 1 tick bite. Western medicine does a horrible job at analyzing the symptoms, testing, educating and treating their patients. The labs are pretty unreliable as are the antibody requirements for + test.

It's very common to get more than 1 infection from a single tick bite (CDC says it's not). This greatly complicates recovery. The study that the CDC relies on suffers from a small sample size and heavy selection bias (see uptodate.com).

Ticks can transmit multiple bacteria in less than 30 minutes depending on circulation and host.

CDC recommended tests have a false negative rate approaching 60%. ELISA does not even have repeatable results from the same blood sample. Western Blot ignores 2 Borellia specific antibodies (31,34) that were part of a problematic vaccine in the mid 1990s.

Vaccines are improbable given how the bacteria can adjust its outer surface protein (triggering antibodies) and its multiple forms (spirochete, biofilm, round body).

The CDC treatment guidelines are bullshit and usually result in a relapse 4+ months later as low energy, headache, sore tendons, brain fog, arthritis, heart, etc symptoms. Thus most people are unsuccessfully treated with short term doxycycline, steroids (make it worse), anti-depressants, MS treatments, etc... all expensive pharmaceutical treatments that fix some symptoms while hurting the long term health of the patient without every discovering the underlying cause.I've gone through part of the CDC treatment before educating myself and realizing it was mostly bullshit. I know a number of people that have had similar difficulties.

A healthy immune system combined with prolonged pulsed herbal medicines(TCM/western) and/or multiple pulsed antibiotics (hard on GI and its immune function) seem to be the best treatment option.

There are number of bacteria in our natural environment that our immune system eventually cannot fight off. Many of them result in things like MS, Alzheimers, arthritis, heart damage, etc.

Medical science needs better testing of immune signaling (cytokines, chemokines, etc) before and after treatments. Most labs cannot test for many of these and insurance won't cover it.

Labs like igenex, fry, galaxy, dnaconnexions, etc have much better procedures for testing and will look at all specific/shared antibodies than common labs. For example, 41 is an early Lyme antibody shared with Chlamydia. The CDC requires 3+ Lyme specific antibodies to make a positive (IgG and IgM).

Reading "Healing Lyme" by Buhner gives a scientific overview backed by a ton of research that the CDC ignores. 12) ilads.org is comprised of doctors who actually treat Lyme and deal with patients ...

Re: Lyme Disease Is on the Rise Again

#166

Post by lymeeducator »

adsfqwop wrote: post #159
lymeeducator wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CDC is actually harmful with the misinformation and test suggestions they provide. I have Lyme, Bartonella, Mycoplasma, at least from 1 tick bite. Western medicine does a horrible job at analyzing the symptoms, testing, educating and treating their patients. The labs are pretty unreliable as are the antibody requirements for + test. 1) It's very common to get more than 1 infection from a single tick bite (CDC say…

You should format your post. I think many people auto-downvote such a wall of text. Other than that, I think it's information worth considering. Lyme has become a huge political disease, which is really unfortunate for the chronically ill patients who are left in the middle of this battle.

I reposted and this time the format took. I agree on the politics. I paid for multiple tests out of pocket. In one case to prove to my functional medicine doctor that I had Bartonella as well (the classic striped rashes were apparently not enough evidence for my primary or infectious disease doctor and the fact that I had a known tick bite).

One vial of blood for a PCR test to a local lab that the insurance covered (negative).

One vial of blood to Igenex for a FISH test (positive).

I had multiple rashes (spotted and striped) so I was over 90% sure at that point. My primary care doctor apologized and admitted that the CDC data seemed faulty. The infectious disease doctor never got back to me. Herbal (TCM/Western) is helping, but it's not quick. I believe pulsing treatments working with the human immune system offers the best approach these days.

Re: Lyme Disease Is on the Rise Again

#167

Post by internetman55 »

notabee wrote: post #149
internetman55 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this actual medicine or blogger stuff? I don't mean to be dismissive but most people I've seen talk about "microbiome" "gut" etc. seem somewhat quacklike

Do you want links to studies? I don't mind digging those up if you're actually interested. There is tons of woo surrounding the microbiome, leaky gut, and just about every other hot topic these days. There is also solid science being done around it. I don't work in the medical field, but I had to learn a great deal over several years after an adverse reaction to antibiotics kept me sick for a very long time (despite…

Oh indeed, I haven't researched the subject, just know many quacks seem obsessed with "gut" and "microbiome" these days and wasn't sure if there was real science behind it. Glad you are doing better, that sounds like a nightmare!

Re: Lyme Disease Is on the Rise Again

#168

Post by Fomite »

mercutio2 wrote: post #164
Fomite wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not by any of my colleagues you wouldn't. And I'm an Epidemiologist who went to school in the South.

Your epidemiologist pals wouldn’t laugh at the idea of freezing thousands upon thousands of ticks every warm season? I tend to think they would. Tick borne illnesses are unfortunate, but for people who live in rural areas like I (and apparently jjeaff) have lived, where we would keep jars of isopropyl alcohol around in which everyone could put the the few dozen ticks they’d pick off their clothes and bodies during a…

Nope! Their suggestion (last time I had a tick bite) was to keep the tick for testing, because there are a number of different pathogens, with different approaches to treatment, you can get from ticks.

Naturally, there's a latent period, so you don't retain them for very long, but that's the advice I got from a woman who works with forestry workers in NC on tickborne illness.

Re: Lyme Disease Is on the Rise Again

#169

Post by DmenshunlAnlsis »

Fomite wrote: post #168
mercutio2 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your epidemiologist pals wouldn’t laugh at the idea of freezing thousands upon thousands of ticks every warm season? I tend to think they would. Tick borne illnesses are unfortunate, but for people who live in rural areas like I (and apparently jjeaff) have lived, where we would keep jars of isopropyl alcohol around in which everyone could put the the few dozen ticks they’d pick off their clothes and bodies during a…

Nope! Their suggestion (last time I had a tick bite) was to keep the tick for testing, because there are a number of different pathogens, with different approaches to treatment, you can get from ticks. Naturally, there's a latent period, so you don't retain them for very long , but that's the advice I got from a woman who works with forestry workers in NC on tickborne illness.

Generally speaking, if it’s safe to do so, you want to capture and keep any animal that you’re concerned may have bitten you and transmitted disease or envenomated you. Be it a tick, a spider, or a snake, although it’s generally much easier to pull off with a tick than a snake. Emphasis on, “if it is safe...” of course.

Re: Lyme Disease Is on the Rise Again

#170

Post by tim333 »

nonbel wrote: post #67
rb808 wrote: post #27

I've stopped hiking and camping largely because of this. Its just not worth it any more. This page has an uncommon photo of just how small the nymph deer ticks are. https://sectionhiker.com/backpacking-lyme-disease-prevention...

Something is wrong here. How did humanity survive living most of their lives outdoors for so long in the presence of these ticks? Did lyme disease really not exist until 1975? I see there is some kind of "blame everything on lyme disease" movement going on as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyme_disease_controversy

US life expectancy was 8 years less in 1970. There are lots of things that can do you in that people kind of put up with.
Post reply on HN