Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined • Hacker News Board

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#161

Post by mikeash » Wed, May 02, 2018, 2:40 PM UTC

mfoy_ wrote: post #64

mikeash wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody thinks this is good, but half of our voters think government is the problem, and these problems would disappear if the government would stop messing everything up and let businesses provide health care how they want.

I'm pretty sure "how they want" looks exactly like it does right now, with the only change being the option to refuse treating uninsured emergency cases.

You don’t have to convince me! I think socialized medicine is the way to go. But I see enough from the other side to have an idea of the thinking there.

Part of the reasoning is that prices are high because of excessive regulation, like that requirement to treat all emergency cases. Get rid of those and prices will become affordable, the theory goes. I don’t think that would help nearly enough to make it work, but others clearly disagree.

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#162

Post by assblaster » Wed, May 02, 2018, 2:40 PM UTC

sgift wrote: post #10

Carlton87 wrote: post #2

There is an easy way to avoid this, don't go to the Emergency Room unless you have an Emergency.

Yeah. Easy. When I went to an ER because I had fainted multiple times they wanted to send me away, because "that's nothing too serious" ... and I thought that sounds reasonable and wanted to go home, they are the experts after all, aren't they? A good friend told them to do their fucking job instead and they grudgingly agreed to check me, but "you will be out of here in no time, there's nothing" ... so ... they did a…

You could also go to a primary care doctor who would be capable of performing a detailed exam to address your chief complaint.

Your friend was right in that the emergency room doctor should do their job, but their job isn't to be the primary physician, they're there to diagnose and treat emergencies.

If you were tachycardic, tachypneic, apneic, hypotensive, hypertensive, febrile, hypothermic, bloody, pale, in severe localized pain, slurring speech, paretic, then the ER would investigate until answers are obtained, because all of the above are concerning.

A complaint of only fainting has many non emergency causes, and you would have to provide additional information that would warrant investigation. Ordering fishing expedition tests in the ER is extremely wasteful in a non emergency situation. Imagine how many people go to the ER for nonemergency care and expensive tests are ordered unnecessarily! Because of defensive medicine, this happens way too much, which is why healthcare costs so damn much in this country.

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#163

Post by [deleted] » Wed, May 02, 2018, 2:41 PM UTC

Talyen42 wrote: post #39

Hospital corporations and insurance corporations are not your friend. You shouldn't have to do this in a first world country, but: * Go to the ER without ID * (optional) Ask how much it will cost * (optional) They do not give prices, as a matter of policy * They must treat you by law * Afterwards, offer a cash payment you deem reasonable * They will accept or decline it Transaction complete. For non-emergency care an…

[deleted]

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#164

Post by cavanasm » Wed, May 02, 2018, 2:42 PM UTC

usefulcat wrote: post #149

Ensorceled wrote: post #45

I recently had a spot appear in my vision. Went to my GP same day, the receptionist called around to get me into a local optometrist who determined it was a detached retina, she called and got me into the local hospital as an emergency case. It was busy but I got my first treatment that evening. The entire journey, my green OHIP card was all I needed, no insurance forms, no pre-approvals, no extra charges. 5 hospital…

> 2. The US system is by far the best and that's why it's so expensive Cognitive dissonance and/or Stockholm syndrome?

Cognitive dissonance associated with politics in some cases, and probably just ignorance and an assumption that there's some amount of fairness and reasonability behind pricing in other cases?

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#165

Post by refurb » Wed, May 02, 2018, 2:43 PM UTC

seymour333 wrote: post #137

mfoy_ wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You forgot: 3. Canadians pay for their health care in tax, anyways. (However: https://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0411/do-canadian... )

You forgot: 3. This is actually a good thing, because we get health care when we need it and aren't exposed to crippling debt? (your system entirely indefensible from every possible view point)

aren't exposed to crippling debt

Whoa there. My family has a good friend whose child was born with a severe genetic disease in Canada. They are paying a ton out of pocket for care for their child since the gov't doesn't pay (night nurse, some physiotherapy). Both parents are having to work full time just to pay the medical bills.

For your average Canadian everything gets paid for, but if you have special needs, you're sometimes on the hook big time.

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#166

Post by uberduber » Wed, May 02, 2018, 2:44 PM UTC

nickjj wrote: post #134

ajross wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> into thinking paying ~$450 / month per adult for basic health insurance with high deductibles is a bargain because it "saves" them from $100,000+ hospital bills in an emergency scenario It is, though. Insurance is expensive, but it's not a scam. That money tends to go mostly for care, overall. Someone has to pay it. It's true that on the whole, the US tends to overpay for care and that other systems tend to get sim…

> It is, though. Insurance is expensive, but it's not a scam. That money tends to go mostly for care, overall. Someone has to pay it. Yes but the govt already takes a bit over 40% of my income (I run my own business). I'm certainly paying my share. It's not my fault that the govt would rather use those funds on non-healthcare related things. I'm all for a true universal health care for everyone, but if you're already…

FYI, there's a loophole out of the penalty. Don't know anyone who's tried it, but if you get a disconnect notice from the utility you get three months I think, so just time your payments accordingly.

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#167

Post by assblaster » Wed, May 02, 2018, 2:44 PM UTC

pandacat wrote: post #7

Carlton87 wrote: post #2

There is an easy way to avoid this, don't go to the Emergency Room unless you have an Emergency.

I remember when I was still a school kid there was another kid that fell on his head when he did skate boarding. He said that everything was alright. In the afternoon he got headache but still claimed it was alright. Next day he was dead...

Epidural hematoma. Careful observation is necessary because if there is a sudden decline in mental status, emergency surgery is essential.

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#168

Post by ThrustVectoring » Wed, May 02, 2018, 2:44 PM UTC

Balance billing is complete bullshit. My long-term plan to deal with it is to move to Texas for their superior creditor protection laws, retire off of retirement accounts + annuities + owning primary residence, have zero assets that creditors can go after, and tell the hospital and insurance company to figure it out because they are legally unable to force me to pay.

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#169

Post by samiam27 » Wed, May 02, 2018, 2:45 PM UTC

charlesdm wrote: post #16

toomanybeersies wrote: post #9

How can people read and hear about stories like this, and even possibly think it's OK or even normal? How do lawmakers in the USA convince people that this is acceptable? I have never directly paid a single cent for healthcare, and neither has anyone I know. When I had to get 6 stitches in my forehead at 2 AM on a Sunday morning, it cost me nothing. When my friend needed to get the tip of his finger reattached, it co…

I will bring up one point. The wages medical practitioners make are generally higher in the US. So the cost of medical care is higher. I live in Belgium, mostly good and free healthcare (barring payment of a few euros here and there). I have 3 cousins who are (or are studying to become) doctors and while specialised doctors can make decent money (€75 -> 450k), they don't come anywhere close to what a US based doctor…

The other difference. Training in the US to become a doctor costs hundreds of thousands of dollars up to 1M. In your country it is free.

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#170

Post by assblaster » Wed, May 02, 2018, 2:45 PM UTC

piyush_soni wrote: post #20

Ok, mine is way less than her, but at one of the ER in Wisconsin, they sent me a bill of $400 for literally telling me that I have no disease and sending me back. Out of that, the insurance paid $300, and I paid 100 out of my pocket. I had gone to ER only because it was at an odd time and no other hospital was open.

Why didn't you just wait to see your primary physician?