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Middle-Class Families Increasingly Look to Community Colleges

nytimes.com

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Re: Middle-Class Families Increasingly Look to Community Colleges

#161

Post by skookumchuck »

chrisseaton wrote: post #160
skookumchuck wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the teachers have masters degrees. Besides, teaching college freshman calculus is not exactly magneto hydrodynamics.

But most of them don't have masters degrees in mathematics, do they? Many of them will have a generic Master of Education degree. The normally accepted education level for teaching a university-level class is a PhD.

You don't need a masters degree in math to teach freshman calculus.

I was taught freshman calc by grad students - with no "education" training whatsoever. Perhaps these "masters" of education are learning the wrong things.

Freshman calculus just isn't that hard, and isn't much beyond algebra. This "gee math is hard" crap is, well, crap. No PhD is necessary. Hell, I taught it to my kids on the kitchen table, and I have no advanced degree and never took a course in education.

Re: Middle-Class Families Increasingly Look to Community Colleges

#163

Post by peter303 »

The first semester of calculas at MIT covered the same material as three semesters of calculas I took at the community college while in high school. You could interpret this two ways: (1) some schools just go faster than others and cover more material or (2) at MIT you had to work hard to keep up at that pace. While in high school and CC you could breeze through the slower presentation.

Re: Middle-Class Families Increasingly Look to Community Colleges

#164

Post by Consultant32452 »

iopuy wrote: post #136
oculusthrift wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is essentially what AP classes are, is it not. If you go to a decent high school and take a good amount of AP’s it will keep you busy and challenged.

Of AP, IB and dual enrollment AP is by far the worst option. There is a cumulative test at the end of the year where if you do not score high enough you won't receive college credit where as IB and dual enrollment focus on the content of the course throughout the semester to.award credit (and sometimes a cumulative project). Aced your AP class but perform poorly on the test, no credit for you!!! Also the tests cost h…

One benefit of AP is that you can take the test even if you haven't taken the class. So if you're motivated and can travel to some place where the test is being offered, you can rock out a shit ton of credits.

Re: Middle-Class Families Increasingly Look to Community Colleges

#165

Post by sudosteph »

iopuy wrote: post #136
oculusthrift wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is essentially what AP classes are, is it not. If you go to a decent high school and take a good amount of AP’s it will keep you busy and challenged.

Of AP, IB and dual enrollment AP is by far the worst option. There is a cumulative test at the end of the year where if you do not score high enough you won't receive college credit where as IB and dual enrollment focus on the content of the course throughout the semester to.award credit (and sometimes a cumulative project). Aced your AP class but perform poorly on the test, no credit for you!!! Also the tests cost h…

Problem is IB comes with a whole host of other requirements that AP doesnt. My school required volunteer time, a yearly special project, and yearlong courses (instead of semester-long which made all non-IB courses harder to schedule) to enroll in IB courses. I even know 2 people who were forced out of IB as juniors after the school canceled Latin classes, because they wouldn't have time to take 3 credits of a new language. Both of those people say they were glad to switch to AP though, less stress and more flexibility. Passing the exams wasn't hard either. Also IIRC, IB absolutely did require a test score for credit, and it wasn't any easier than AP.

I also dropped out of IB, but in favor of a new program that let me take 2 online state college classes during the school day. So I got full college credit, great professors, and kept my schedule flexible. So agreed that dual enrollment is better if the option is available.

Re: Middle-Class Families Increasingly Look to Community Colleges

#166

Post by skookumchuck »

thoth wrote: post #145
skookumchuck wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a failure of leadership and resources Why is it more expensive to teach, say, calculus than algebra? Offering more advanced classes should not cost more.

Well, the more difficult/specialized the subject, the fewer available teachers. Plus, someone that knows calculus well enough to teach it likely has other job prospects (competitive pay).

I guess I'm the opposite, you'd have to pay me extra to induce me to teach the more basic material.

Re: Middle-Class Families Increasingly Look to Community Colleges

#167

Post by sudosteph »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #164
iopuy wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of AP, IB and dual enrollment AP is by far the worst option. There is a cumulative test at the end of the year where if you do not score high enough you won't receive college credit where as IB and dual enrollment focus on the content of the course throughout the semester to.award credit (and sometimes a cumulative project). Aced your AP class but perform poorly on the test, no credit for you!!! Also the tests cost h…

One benefit of AP is that you can take the test even if you haven't taken the class. So if you're motivated and can travel to some place where the test is being offered, you can rock out a shit ton of credits.

I wish somebody would have told me that. I think our school district paid for students AP exams if they were enrolled in the class, so I didn't even know there was an option to pay on your own.

Re: Middle-Class Families Increasingly Look to Community Colleges

#168

Post by nradov »

jobowoo wrote: post #134
KKKKkkkk1 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm wondering what's the opportunity cost that you paid by having Cal State on your CV instead of a top-ranked university. I sometimes see people who went to MIT or Stanford that I feel would not have gotten nearly as far as they have if it were Cal State. How many of your colleagues are from top universities?

I was able to find this site that compares average income by where students went to college. CSU Stanislaus: $47,000 (early career), $90,300 (mid career) MIT: $81,500 (early career), $147,000 (mid career) Early career is 0-5 years experience. Mid career is 10+ years experience. https://www.payscale.com/college-salary-report/bachelors?pag... Obviously, we can't say that prestige of college and income are causal but th…

In order to establish some degree of causality we would have to look only at the population of students accepted to both schools. That way you're starting from a comparable baseline.

Re: Middle-Class Families Increasingly Look to Community Colleges

#169

Post by tnecniv »

harryh wrote: post #127
bogomipz wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"That's exactly what I am saying. I think we would be better off if we treated Software development like a trade that had a two year up to date curriculum that actually prepared people to be hit the ground running at a company." So you see no reason for schools to produce people with well-rounded educations? You don't feel its important for society to have adults who have a wide-ranging perspective on things like li…

In college I took: * 1 literature class (shakespeare elective) * 0 philosophy classes * 1 history class (history 101) * 0 art classes * 2 science classes (physics 1 & 2) I don't believe these gave me a wide-ranging perspective on these topics. I think my experience is pretty typical for technical majors. The idea that most students develop this sort of thing in college is pretty clearly a myth.

I majored in electrical engineering at a good school, and had to take ~8 humanities and social science credits, so that is surprising to me.

Re: Middle-Class Families Increasingly Look to Community Colleges

#170

Post by Consultant32452 »

sudosteph wrote: post #167
Consultant32452 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One benefit of AP is that you can take the test even if you haven't taken the class. So if you're motivated and can travel to some place where the test is being offered, you can rock out a shit ton of credits.

I wish somebody would have told me that. I think our school district paid for students AP exams if they were enrolled in the class, so I didn't even know there was an option to pay on your own.

In my brother's case the AP English teacher was horrible. So he dropped the class and paid out of pocket to take the exam. The AP teacher happened to be the proctor and she was pissed the day he showed up. Having activist parents makes a world of difference. shrug
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