Live data from Hacker News

To Change Habits, Try Replacement Instead

nytimes.com

161–170 of 180 posts

Re: To Change Habits, Try Replacement Instead

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no doubt that the issue you describe happens, but people have also had the experience that there simply isn't any "enjoyable activity range" to begin with. This could be some abnormality in interoception, which researchers are finding is much more common than previously thought (it was previously regarded primarily as an ASD symptom, but as much as 15% of the general population might be affected depending on h…

> but as much as 15% of the general population might be affected depending on how abnormality is defined and assessed Do you have any links to research on this topic?

I should probably start bookmarking this stuff. To be clear, the connection to exercise resistance/intolerance is my own speculation. Most of the actual research so far is focused on the relationship between abnormal interoception and aspects of mental illness. A lot of this is also pretty preliminary; as far as I can tell, there's not yet much consensus on even a rigorous definition of which sensory functions qualify as "interoceptive", let alone validation of methods to measure it. That being said, interesting articles include:

Alexithymia, not autism, is associated with impaired interoception [1]

“Lacking warmth”: Alexithymia trait is related to warm-specific thermal somatosensory processing [2]

Alexithymia: a general deficit of interoception [3]

Alexithymia Is Associated With a Multidomain, Multidimensional Failure of Interoception: Evidence From Novel Tests [4]

[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4962768/

[2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5595273/

[3] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5098957/

[4] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5824617/

Re: To Change Habits, Try Replacement Instead

#162
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It took me about a year to recognize this pattern, but eventually I learned to catch myself whenever I was seeking this form of comfort Most of the advice from self-help books can be condensed into this line - Recognizing a pattern and catching yourself. Only after this in place can a behavior/habit be replaced. Or improved. Or removed. If there is no self-awareness, changing behavior/habit is infinitely more diffi…

I would maybe partially agree. I personally mostly recognise the pattern, the problem is to find the strength to fight it, to want to change it at least. It's even more difficult if you are depressive. For more than a year I struggled with a depression and sometimes couldn't get out of bed, even though I worked and studied, cycled at least 3 times per week and was mostly active. I would fall asleep everywhere and any…

That sounds like anemia or some other form of malnutrition or fatigue syndrome

Re: To Change Habits, Try Replacement Instead

#163
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do agree with your statement, but it's the idealistic approach and sometimes not effective at all. A big problem with the dogs (as observed in humans, too) is that if they don't see a leader in you, they are going to take this position over. I've had 4 dogs in my lifetime and I've tried different approaches with all of them, because they all had different characters, but one thing I did with all of them: I was stri…

I strongly disagree, and stand by my assertion. I've owned dogs all my life (and I've been both very bad and very good at training dogs, depending on which point in my life we're talking about). I'm absolutely confident that redirection and positive reinforcement is better than punishment...again, so much better that you can accurately say "punishment does not work" without much exaggeration. Being the leader and pun…

*elicit

Re: To Change Habits, Try Replacement Instead

#164
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do agree with your statement, but it's the idealistic approach and sometimes not effective at all. A big problem with the dogs (as observed in humans, too) is that if they don't see a leader in you, they are going to take this position over. I've had 4 dogs in my lifetime and I've tried different approaches with all of them, because they all had different characters, but one thing I did with all of them: I was stri…

I strongly disagree, and stand by my assertion. I've owned dogs all my life (and I've been both very bad and very good at training dogs, depending on which point in my life we're talking about). I'm absolutely confident that redirection and positive reinforcement is better than punishment...again, so much better that you can accurately say "punishment does not work" without much exaggeration. Being the leader and pun…

I hear you and I agree with most of what you've written. That's why I said above that I agree with you but I still find the approach very idealistic and sometimes very difficult to accomplish.

> The notion of "alpha" among canines is so misunderstood by most people that it is kind of pointless to use it as a guiding principle in dog training.

I come from the place where stray dogs are a very common phenomenon, they almost always move in packs and the behavior of alpha dog can be at times very brutal towards the pack members, if they don't follow the lead. I once even had two dogs at the same time, both males and they would fight for leadership badly unless one of them established himself as a leader. So I wouldn't say that most peoples'approach is necessarily pointless.

> Perhaps we're just using different terminology here, but when people say "punishment", I assume they mean loudly yelling "no!" at the least and at the worst a rolled up newspaper, or rubbing their nose in poop, a shock or choke collar, or throwing them out of the house, or whatever.

all the examples of the punishments you've mentioned are very violent and brutal and are mostly observed by unexperienced caregivers or by people who are violent by nature. I frequently caught myself yelling, too, and it might be normal at some point, because you are a human and sometimes things happen and you say or do something in a way you didn't mean to. Important here is to realize it was too much and not to do this again. So you learn.

> I sometimes catch myself becoming frustrated and yelling...but, I have also observed that it does not achieve my goal with the dog, and I can see their confusion and discomfort.

The confusion comes into play when the dog is used to a distinct pattern of your behavior and you suddenly change it. If your dog has never seen you strict and you've been always gentle with him, of course he will be baffled, that's very natural.

Strictness is not bad by definition. If you can balance, and it is very important to do this, it is alright to be strict from time to time IMO. Raising a dog is the same for me as raising the kids, they are part of the family deeply loved and cared for. As I mentioned before, I'm not a violent person but I am strict because I have my limits.

> Nearly every dog owner I've ever known is doing it so wrong, and I wish I could fix all of their broken ideas because dogs deserve a good relationship with their people.

I hear you. i want to live in a better world, too and I hate seeing people mishandling animals. There are millions of people who are brutal to their own children and who are very sure in the rightness of their raising methods. That's very sad and unfair, but will stay the way it is unless the awareness will be raised. Only this way will all creatures have a chance to be treated fairly. So I thank you for your kind attitude very much.

Re: To Change Habits, Try Replacement Instead

#165
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would maybe partially agree. I personally mostly recognise the pattern, the problem is to find the strength to fight it, to want to change it at least. It's even more difficult if you are depressive. For more than a year I struggled with a depression and sometimes couldn't get out of bed, even though I worked and studied, cycled at least 3 times per week and was mostly active. I would fall asleep everywhere and any…

That sounds like anemia or some other form of malnutrition or fatigue syndrome

I didn't think it was normal too, but my lab test results were saying I was perfectly healthy.

Re: To Change Habits, Try Replacement Instead

#166
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't exaggerate with a bar of chocolate, I've done that, not proud, but a huge fan of chocolate. I understand what you mean and most people might do exactly as you say, I don't argue with that. My argument is that it is possible to lose weight if you do sports, even if you lose a very small amount of weight, it is still losing the weight. I'm not trying to stubbornly prove my point here, I just feel that I've bee…

I hear you, and I understand your point. And you're right too. Exercise is a way to burn calories faster, there's no denying that. I've been coming down extra hard to emphasize my point. ;) But just to be clear, because I'm not sure I've been completely understood either, and to answer your question "why we should deny the fact that sports also is one of the options"... I never lost weight at the gym in 20 years of g…

I'd really like to read some unbiased statistics, which wouldn't be some sports propaganda or anything I've unknowingly posted above. Could you advice me any sources that I could read up on? I've looked through the article that scarface74 posted, but I'd like to have some more read.

Re: To Change Habits, Try Replacement Instead

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as cutting back on meat goes: I'd suggest simply focusing on eating enough vegetables. Most folks don't come near eating enough fruit and vegetables (most of which should be vegetables). You might find that simply getting enough vegetables forces you to cut back on meat. You might replace part of the meat in a meal with vegetables. Maybe switch your breakfast so you eat fruit or vegetables. Same for lunch. Fin…

(not who you responded to, fyi) I've noticed that veggies are hugely important to making me feel good, probably because of the fiber and the fact that I'm eating them instead of processed crap. It drive me crazy, though, trying to find recipes that have lots of veggies, but still a little bit of meat. I like meat, and no desire to become a vegetarian of any sort, I just want to have 90% veggies, 10% meat, or somethin…

It can be really difficult to find recipes that are balanced. You might try looking at recipes for diabetics. I'd start a blog to make these high-veg meals if I had the inclination to keep it up.

I'm mostly vegetarian - I eat fish once or twice a week. but I use meat replacements. it makes it slightly easier, but not completely. Before this, I cut down on meat greatly - I had gallbladder problems and later got that organ removed, so digesting meat is weird for me. My digestive system is happier this way.

Stir-fries are good. In many recipes that you have small bits of meat (diced chicken, ground beef, and the like) you can replace part of the meat with veggies. It doesn't take a lot of meat to add flavor or get your protein. Soups are generally flexible. Pasta sauces can take a lot of veggies in them (a stick blender will make the texture smoother). Simple dishes of meat with sides are a great way to add veggies since you can easily adjust your portions. Grilled cheese - or toasted cheese made in the oven, especially open-faced - gives some veggies.

Another great way to make sure you get veggies is to limit meat to one meal a day. Or simply make sure you look at other meals and snacks to fit them in. Eat fruit instead of drinking fruit juice in the morning. Snack on bell pepper or carrots. If you look at intake through the day instead of individual meals, it might be easier to achieve. You can average through the week as well so you have more flexibility. That might mean you have some nights with fewer vegetables and others that have little to no meat.

Re: To Change Habits, Try Replacement Instead

#168
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't exaggerate with a bar of chocolate, I've done that, not proud, but a huge fan of chocolate. I understand what you mean and most people might do exactly as you say, I don't argue with that. My argument is that it is possible to lose weight if you do sports, even if you lose a very small amount of weight, it is still losing the weight. I'm not trying to stubbornly prove my point here, I just feel that I've bee…

I hear you, and I understand your point. And you're right too. Exercise is a way to burn calories faster, there's no denying that. I've been coming down extra hard to emphasize my point. ;) But just to be clear, because I'm not sure I've been completely understood either, and to answer your question "why we should deny the fact that sports also is one of the options"... I never lost weight at the gym in 20 years of g…

For most people, weight loss is simply the wrong goal. Increasing activity levels and functional ability provides a much better return in quality of life and long-term health than weight loss.

As activity levels rise, weight loss starts to change from an extrinsic to an intrinsic goal, as it now directly impacts performance. It still requires diet change, but each incremental reduction produces more tangible effects than just a number on a dial.

Re: To Change Habits, Try Replacement Instead

#169

About 6 years ago I read this terrific book, "The Power of Habit: Why We Do What We Do in Life and Business" [1]... Highly recommended! [1] https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B0055PGUYU/

I just finished reading this last week. I highly recommend as well. Key take away, understand the habit loop, (cue, response, reward). To change your habit you need to know what the cue is, and watch out for it. When it happens, you need to replace the habit with a difference response that gives the reward. Part of figuring out your cue is looking at People around you, Emotional State, Location, Time, Immediately Pre…

If anyone finds this train of thought interesting, look at literature around Neuro-linguistic programming [0]. As pointed out in the Wikipedia article, this body of work is heavily criticized, and I'll address that, because I think that NLP shouldn't be discarded. The methodicality of the approach outlined in the above comment is somewhat of a central theme in most of NLP, that's what reminded me of NLP. For the purpose of this discussion, I'd sum up NLP as a deep, broad and interesting exploration of the key-take-away from the above comment, that is the trigger-response-reward loop.

It's true that there's a lot to criticize in NLP. What stuck out to me especially was the monetization by R. Bandler and his manner of conversing that is somewhere between being excessively boastful and compulsively lying. However, the Wikipedia article says that the body of work that is NLP was discredited scientifically, which I find preposterous.

I can easily see some practice advocated by a notable NLP practicioner being discredited, but not the whole, because it is too far-reaching. The area covered by NLP makes it pretty much an umbrella keyword for many, many areas of activity of a handful of people. The most controversial of which is probably their revival, reinterpretation and I'd dare say furthering of our understanding of hypnosis, but that's just one thing, and one that I don't find to be their most important contribution.

The basic NLP keywords relevant to this discussion are triggers, mental mapping, anchoring, Meta Model, and then a small host of more advanced concepts that use these building blocks. Their work on the vaguelly named "meta model" alone should be deemed an important contribution, while being minor compared to their work on behavioral therapy.

I can't recommend individual books, since I've sprinted through a bunch of them some years back, their quality somewhat varied, and I had to read some of them to find out that they are repackaged older material, but there are definitely gems out there. The principal authors in the field are John Grinder and Richard Bandler. I would stay away from post-2000 books by Bandler, if I recall correctly. I seem to have found them over-monetizing and a bit distasteful. Bandler also has a lot of video content out there, which again is often distasteful in my opinion.

To sum up on a positive note, I find the literature and work around NLP to be a diamond in the rough, emphasis on diamond.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuro-linguistic_programming

Re: To Change Habits, Try Replacement Instead

#170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(not who you responded to, fyi) I've noticed that veggies are hugely important to making me feel good, probably because of the fiber and the fact that I'm eating them instead of processed crap. It drive me crazy, though, trying to find recipes that have lots of veggies, but still a little bit of meat. I like meat, and no desire to become a vegetarian of any sort, I just want to have 90% veggies, 10% meat, or somethin…

various stir fries are great for that

Yeah, I'd probably have stir fry a good 6 out of 7 days a week if it were up to me. My wife likes them, but not as much as I do. She loves cheese too much ;) I agree, though, they rock for veggies.
Post reply on HN