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LinuxBoot: Linux as Firmware

linuxboot.org

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Re: LinuxBoot: Linux as Firmware

#161

Post by npsimons »

endymi0n wrote: post #139
madez wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why it is important to not buy random shiny devices. Open source hardware like for example the Teres-1 [0] are what allows us to stay in control. I can't wait for even more open successors based on RISC-V processors. [0] https://www.olimex.com/Products/DIY-Laptop/

I‘m sorry, but 99% of the population will prefer a random shiny device that plays their cat video to one that lets them be „in control“ but have them recompile their kernel with the correct wifi driver before it works for them. With the current ecosystem, it‘s just much cheaper to mix and match commercial off the shelf solutions that are way too powerful for the job than custom building an optimized solution, because…

> I‘m sorry, but 99% of the population will prefer a random shiny device that plays their cat video

I'm sorry, but fuck 99% of the population. They're not the makers or creators, they are already well served by what's out there. I am truly grateful to have open options and other people who realize the power and freedom of truly open hardware. I'll gladly pay the costs to not cede that independence.

Re: LinuxBoot: Linux as Firmware

#162

Post by aplorbust »

aplorbust wrote: post #138
aplorbust wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

50+ points. Amazing. Anyones guess what this means but at the least I think it shows users1 have opinions about UEFI. I think it is a good thing if computer owners care about initialization, bootloaders, owner control and freedom of choice. Clearly some do care. Hats off to those folks. 1 Besides only this one: http://yarchive.net/comp/linux/efi.html

60 and rising. Can we make it to 70?

80 and rising. Can we hit 90?

Re: LinuxBoot: Linux as Firmware

#163

Post by aplorbust »

heeen wrote: post #144
aplorbust wrote: post #36

IMO, the problems that [U]EFI introduces (that far exceed the historical limitations it overcomes) should be self-evident . IMO, he should not have to argue against having multiple, redundant copies of drivers, shells and utilties each accessible only in its own "OS" (UEFI, GRUB, OS). It should not be a debate. This is definitely not "defense in depth". IMO, whomever controls the first OS controls the computer becaus…

> I do most work on the commandline in text-mode (no graphics layer) I'm pretty sure there is some graphics layers even in your work environment.

VGA textmode. I stopped using X11 many years ago. Theres no graphics drivers compiled into the custom kernel that I use (not Linux). The term "no graphics layer" seemed like adequate shorthand.

Re: LinuxBoot: Linux as Firmware

#164

Post by mixmastamyk »

throwaway2048 wrote: post #7
mikepurvis wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar philosophy to Petitboot, for which the rationale is given here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQueOHKO58M Obviously it's a heavy weight solution, but the idea of having more drivers and better support is compelling— it's a much easier path to exotic boot setups, eg over wifi, off a SAN, whatever.

why boot linux then boot linux again, rather than just booting linux once?

So you have choice of running Windows or BSD, etc.

Re: LinuxBoot: Linux as Firmware

#166

Post by chris_wot »

ganshun wrote: post #59
chris_wot wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a document that does a decent job of explaining how UEFI works?

You could try this: https://github.com/tianocore/tianocore.github.io/wiki/UEFI-E... I don't know of any easily digestible document though.

Thanks!

Re: LinuxBoot: Linux as Firmware

#167

Post by ComputerGuru »

zbentley wrote: post #134
ComputerGuru wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I (see footnote) started off hating the UEFI because it changed everything for me and others working with bootloaders, but at this point I'm just ambivalent about it. It trades one set of problems for another. The biggest problem is with shoddy implementations and poor development/engineering practices by hardware and software vendors (I have some devices lying around from R&D that brick themselves if the ESP is eras…

I learned more from this comment than I did from 6 months of trial and error installation/provisioning/partitioning of various lab computers (macs, hackintoshes, mac/hack + windows, windows, and BSD OSes). Thanks for all your hard work!

You are most welcome. Thank you for taking the time to leave that comment, it actually means a lot. It often seems as if certain content or research that takes months or years is met with nothing more than a 'meh' when published if it isn't applicable to the current fad-of-the-day :)

If you found that comment insightful, you really should read this: https://neosmart.net/wiki/mbr-boot-process/

Cheers!

Re: LinuxBoot: Linux as Firmware

#168

Post by ComputerGuru »

RickSanchez2600 wrote: post #131
ComputerGuru wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No you really can't. There can only be one ESP and that's in the spec. You can have multiple partitions each assigned as /boot for a different OS, but there can only be one ESP which is used by the firmware to store its settings, etc. The EFI spec [0] is officially silent about the presence of multiple EFI system partitions on non-removable hard drives , but explicitly forbids multiple ESPs on removable disks, per §1…

Thank you, you literally saved my life when I tried to get my Windows Vista and Linux partitions working again. Some Windows Vista update or something corrupted the boot loader or something and your software fixed it.

Hey Rick, thanks for taking the time to leave that comment. It means a considerable amount; helping people out is the reason why EasyBCD is free (and with over 50 million downloads to date!)

Re: LinuxBoot: Linux as Firmware

#169

Post by Annatar »

O_H_E wrote: post #148
Annatar wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the clarification. In the context, most other posts here contain no technical detail whatsoever either and are nothing more than unsubstantiated opinions (same as mine); they just really dislike that there is someone out there who doesn’t think that Linux is phenomenal. In the days of Microsoft dominance, we called that monoculture. Volumes have been written and videos filmed on all the inadequacies of the…

I seriously would be interested to learn more about that, can you point me to some resources

Why certainly! This is as good of a place to start as any:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTVfAMRj-7E

Re: LinuxBoot: Linux as Firmware

#170

Post by Annatar »

gkya wrote: post #159
Annatar wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the clarification. In the context, most other posts here contain no technical detail whatsoever either and are nothing more than unsubstantiated opinions (same as mine); they just really dislike that there is someone out there who doesn’t think that Linux is phenomenal. In the days of Microsoft dominance, we called that monoculture. Volumes have been written and videos filmed on all the inadequacies of the…

So Linux (there is no GNU/Linux kernel, but a GNU/Linux OS) is more popular than how much you'd like it to be, and is that the problem? I for one am glad GPL-licenced free software is running on as much platforms as possible. In those cases Linux is basically a library they pick for their work. You can well say the same thing for glibc, gcc, apache, nginx etc. But in the end-user space nobody is forcing you to use Li…

So Linux (there is no GNU/Linux kernel, but a GNU/Linux OS) is more popular than how much you'd like it to be, and is that the problem?

That's a huge problem for me, because I get stuck dealing with problems solved in traditional UNIX operating systems anywhere from 30 to 20 years ago. It's extremely depressing to have to regress. If the future is Linux, then I want no part of such future.

But in the end-user space nobody is forcing you to use Linux

No? Then why do most companies today force me to work on Linux by insisting on running it? Why am I told in interviews "nah, they don't want to try ZFS or SmartOS... they're Linux people".

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