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Acne Vulgaris: A Disease of Western Civilization (2002)

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Re: Acne Vulgaris: A Disease of Western Civilization (2002)

#161

Post by simonsarris »

cageface wrote: post #144
simonsarris wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What evidence? There's a reason the mutation that kept lactase production "on" spread so well. Today many of the healthiest cultures on Earth consume lots of dairy. France with the most butter, Greek with the most cheese, etc.

The healthiest populations in the world consume virtually no dairy. Okinawans, vegans, 7-day adventists etc. The Mediterrean diet is largely vegetarian: http://www.abc.net.au/news/health/2017-02-16/10-commandments... 75% of the world's population loses their ability to digest lactose after infancy: http://www.pcrm.org/health/diets/vegdiets/what-is-lactose-in... Milk is for babies. Cow's milk is for cow babies.

Every country on the Mediterranean consumes an enormous amount of dairy. Greece consumes more cheese per capita than any nation, and Malta, the island in the middle of the med, comes in third.

http://www.dummies.com/food-drink/special-diets/annual-chees...

Re: Acne Vulgaris: A Disease of Western Civilization (2002)

#162

Post by teilo »

patcheudor wrote: post #56
RobertRoberts wrote: post #32

1. When I was a kid, just getting a tan cleared up my acne. 2. Changing my diet helped clean up my acne (not eating junk food) 3. When I was a teenager, I got hurt really bad, and my father found me and had to take me to the hospital. I saw massive acne breakout on his face in less than 15 minutes. 4. When I got older and was less stressed about life, my acne went away. When I got a family/career/house and life stres…

My daughter had severe acne. She changed her diet from vegetarian to full vegan and it cleared right up, in fact most of the past scaring is also now gone. She still consumes sugar (vegan sugar - yeah that's a thing: https://www.peta.org/living/food/is-sugar-vegan/ ) and doesn't take vitamin E or D supplements because she hasn't found any that are 'vegan certified.' Given some of the research we've looked at, our goi…

My daughter got severe acne after becoming a full vegan. When she introduced eggs, dairy, and fish back into her diet, her acne got much better.

Re: Acne Vulgaris: A Disease of Western Civilization (2002)

#163

Post by arthurpaul »

patcheudor wrote: post #56
RobertRoberts wrote: post #32

1. When I was a kid, just getting a tan cleared up my acne. 2. Changing my diet helped clean up my acne (not eating junk food) 3. When I was a teenager, I got hurt really bad, and my father found me and had to take me to the hospital. I saw massive acne breakout on his face in less than 15 minutes. 4. When I got older and was less stressed about life, my acne went away. When I got a family/career/house and life stres…

My daughter had severe acne. She changed her diet from vegetarian to full vegan and it cleared right up, in fact most of the past scaring is also now gone. She still consumes sugar (vegan sugar - yeah that's a thing: https://www.peta.org/living/food/is-sugar-vegan/ ) and doesn't take vitamin E or D supplements because she hasn't found any that are 'vegan certified.' Given some of the research we've looked at, our goi…

Vitamin D2 is always vegan. Vegan D3 extracted from lichens ( https://www.gardenoflife.com/content/hot-ingredient-first-ve... ) is available now on Amazon ( https://www.amazon.com/Doctor-Formulated-Vitamin-Supplement-... )

Re: Acne Vulgaris: A Disease of Western Civilization (2002)

#164

Post by arthurpaul »

sanjeetsuhag wrote: post #14
jayess wrote: post #3

Totally anecdotal, but I started taking vitamin D supplements at the suggestion of my doctor because of my family history of colon cancer. I noticed that my acne declined significantly. I'm wondering if it has to do with the amount of time one spends outside in the sun.

I started Vitamin D supplements too, after reading several personal accounts of it being helpful. Still have not come across any good studies proving the effectiveness of taking Vitamin D supplements (TBH I also haven't tried finding any such information either).

https://www.vitamindcouncil.org/in-finland-increased-vitamin...

Re: Acne Vulgaris: A Disease of Western Civilization (2002)

#165

Post by teach »

peterburkimsher wrote: post #129
teach wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does your girlfriend eat a Western diet? My wife is a registered dietitian and has a PhD in nutrition and in her experience acne is incredibly influenced by diet.

She eats a meat bun for breakfast, a Taiwanese-style biandang 便當 lunchbox, and noodles or dumplings in the evening. She's seen doctors about her acne, and still sometimes visits when there's particularly big or painful zits. It got much better when she was in Australia on Working Holiday, when she worked outside on a farm and was eating a more Western diet, she was less stressed, and the air was less polluted. Our ag…

Meat bun for breakfast, biandang for lunch and dumplings for dinner sounds like a hell of lot of red meat -- aka the Western diet.

If I were her I'd try to cut out the animal products for a month and see what that does. It might not work and then you've at least eliminated a variable.

Also remember that the average medical doctor never had to take a single human nutrition course. Some doctors have done quite a bit of additional studying and are up-to-date on nutrition research and findings but most probably just see the same flawed headlines most Americans do.

Re: Acne Vulgaris: A Disease of Western Civilization (2002)

#166

Post by buckthundaz »

cal5k wrote: post #152
throwaway9980 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine that you could aggregate all the anecdotes shared on the internet. It would be fascinating to compare the statistical conclusions you could draw against accepted science.

It would be damn near impossible to conclude anything from such research without a control. “Randomized double-blind, placebo-controlled trial” is the critical sentence - at best you’d get a correlation which probably has been influenced by the availability of research. Finding truth is freaking hard.

Do you think that qualitative data is useless?

'It would be damn near impossible to conclude anything from such research without a control. “Randomized double-blind, placebo-controlled trial” is the critical sentence'

Since the advent of randomized double-blind, placebo-controlled trial has our public health improved or declined?

Re: Acne Vulgaris: A Disease of Western Civilization (2002)

#167

Post by arthurpaul »

qwerty456127 wrote: post #27
jayess wrote: post #3

Totally anecdotal, but I started taking vitamin D supplements at the suggestion of my doctor because of my family history of colon cancer. I noticed that my acne declined significantly. I'm wondering if it has to do with the amount of time one spends outside in the sun.

Here's the discussion and the paper on vitamin D: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15867918 . TL;DR: make sure to always get at least 8000 IU of vitamin D per day (10 times the RDA) if you want to be healthy and have good bones, skin, mood, sleep, immunity and metabolism. I have also heard a rumor that recent studies suggest solid vitamin D pills are better than oil capsules. Would be nice if somebody knowing wha…

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26690210 - doses of 1885, 2802 and 6235 IU per day are required for normal weight, overweight and obese individuals respectively to achieve natural 25(OH)D concentrations (defined as 58 to 171 nmol/L)

Re: Acne Vulgaris: A Disease of Western Civilization (2002)

#168

Post by cageface »

simonsarris wrote: post #161
cageface wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The healthiest populations in the world consume virtually no dairy. Okinawans, vegans, 7-day adventists etc. The Mediterrean diet is largely vegetarian: http://www.abc.net.au/news/health/2017-02-16/10-commandments... 75% of the world's population loses their ability to digest lactose after infancy: http://www.pcrm.org/health/diets/vegdiets/what-is-lactose-in... Milk is for babies. Cow's milk is for cow babies.

Every country on the Mediterranean consumes an enormous amount of dairy. Greece consumes more cheese per capita than any nation, and Malta, the island in the middle of the med, comes in third. http://www.dummies.com/food-drink/special-diets/annual-chees...

Goat milk is healthier than cow milk:

https://www.livestrong.com/article/402645-what-are-the-healt...

At least some Greeks appear to have a genetic mutation that shields them from the worst effects of cholesterol and saturated fat in cheese:

https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/health/809612/greeks-un...

Even the recent cheerleading studies for cheese caution that eating it in large quantities is dangerous:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alicegwalton/2017/12/06/is-chee...

And health issues aside, dairy is cruel: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/30/dairy-...

Re: Acne Vulgaris: A Disease of Western Civilization (2002)

#169

Post by cal5k »

buckthundaz wrote: post #166
cal5k wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be damn near impossible to conclude anything from such research without a control. “Randomized double-blind, placebo-controlled trial” is the critical sentence - at best you’d get a correlation which probably has been influenced by the availability of research. Finding truth is freaking hard.

Do you think that qualitative data is useless? 'It would be damn near impossible to conclude anything from such research without a control. “Randomized double-blind, placebo-controlled trial” is the critical sentence' Since the advent of randomized double-blind, placebo-controlled trial has our public health improved or declined?

I'm resisting the urge to respond flippantly, since I think that's a question that could be answered rigorously and is certainly worth asking.

With that said, since the advent of the RCT, life expectancy has gone up dramatically in the Western world. It would be hard to imagine testing the efficacy of, say, antibiotics or vaccines without testing them against a control in a placebo-controlled, double-blinded way.

Same goes for simple things like washing your hands and administering prophylactic antibiotics during a C-Section, which dramatically improves the odds that a mother will live through complications during child birth. There would be no way to actually know that these were important without studying them vs. the status quo at the time.

Re: Acne Vulgaris: A Disease of Western Civilization (2002)

#170

Post by foxylad »

throwaway863601 wrote: post #72
foxylad wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally anecdotal, but too much chocolate is what makes me erupt. And I prefer dark chocolate, so it might be the chocolate rather than the dairy. Eating a large bar of dark chocolate should differentiate, purely in the interests of science of course.

Chocolate is the culprit for me as well. Sometimes sugar too, but, not as frequently or as much as chocolate (but the acne seems subtly different from the chocolate one). Out of curiosity, does chocolate have any other effects on you besides the acne? Like easier bleeding/blood thinning? Or other inflammation besides acne? It has more than one effect on me and I surely can't be the only one observing it.

I haven't noticed any anticoagulant effect.

I consume chocolate in the evening and do sometimes clear walking tracks before breakfast, which often involves scratches. So I would expect to have noticed wounds bleeding for longer than usual.

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