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Luna 1.0 Beta is out

luna-lang.org

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Re: Luna 1.0 Beta is out

#161

Post by ddrdrck_ »

gatmne wrote: post #69
wdanilo wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

@moondoge, if you don't want to provide your mail, just write anything in this field, we do NOT validate it in any way. However, we would be very thankful if you provide your real mail address, so we can track how Luna is used and improve the experience. Every data we collect is described here: http://www.luna-lang.org/alpha-data.html . We try to collect only insensitive data, that tell us how Luna is used and how we…

Software that collects and sends back any form of information is a big no-no unless it's opt-in. It's not acceptable when vscode does it. It's not acceptable when .net-core does it. It isn't acceptable when Luna does it. If you want your users to help you learn how Luna is used and preforms in real environments, you ask for them for feedback rather than forcefully extract it. Having telemetry enabled by default (or m…

I find your comment much more "disrespectful" than telemetry enabled by default. Did you read the mention that it was done for beta phase ? If you're not happy with that, then do not use beta, ask politely if it can be removed or made optional for final release, and stop whining and acting disdainfully.

Re: Luna 1.0 Beta is out

#163

Post by qwerty456127 »

What the site promises looks INSANELY COOL but the app doesn't seem to work actually. Errors behind every corner, 100% CPU load all the time and the tutorial won't finish loading. This is not beta, this is pre-alpha at best. I really hope it's going to be fixed in near future, can't wait to actually try applying it.

Re: Luna 1.0 Beta is out

#164

Post by qwerty456127 »

wdanilo wrote: post #27
CapacitorSet wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some impressions right after the download: * I can't see why I have to give my e-mail address. * The Electron setup process is very nice! Though, I wouldn't have minded a lightweight installer, with little more than a wrapper around curl. * After installing the software, I can't see it anywhere - nor from the XFCE app finder, nor in $PATH. I know I should read the documentation, but it'd be nice if I could at least f…

Thank you for your your impressions, we would try to improve it as much as we can. Answering your ideas: 1) You do NOT have to provide your email address, just type there anything if you don't want to provide your real address (it is not validated in any way), however, we would be very thankful if you provide your address, so we can track now how many people are using Luna and if there are any problems happening when…

There is little (if any) virtue in developing a single installer to work on all platforms. People want a drag-and-drop app image for Mac, a PPA repository for Ubuntu and an MSI package for Windows and/or a simple "just extract and run" archive for their platform.

Re: Luna 1.0 Beta is out

#165

Post by spiralganglion »

raytracer wrote: post #85
spiralganglion wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like you’re looking for a nicer version of Max/MSP. I’d certainly be keen to see Luna’s GUI applied to that domain, but I think it’d be better to hope that Max take UI / language design lessons from Luna than Luna add audio processing. The std lib in Max is so astoundingly rich — the number of highly optimized DSP ops implemented in C is going to be hard to match. Even if, say, there was a way to run Luna o…

> It sounds like you’re looking for a nicer version of Max/MSP Exactly. Max/MSP is great and I really want to like it, but despite making several attempts at using it in my practice, it hasn't stuck yet. Max doesn't have enough abstractions to make in depth development enjoyable IMHO. After a certain point I get bogged down and long for a regular programming language with an IDE. I'd probably enjoy Max more if I was…

Have you played with the Web Audio API? It’s got all the primitives you need to build some really cool stuff (plug: ivanish.ca/diminished-fifth), and you have the full power of JS to build your abstractions atop... but you’ll almost certainly wish you had all those DSP goodies before long.

On that note, I wonder what sort of libraries people have written on top of Web Audio. That might be a viable leverage point.

Re: Luna 1.0 Beta is out

#166

Post by bringtheaction »

wdanilo wrote: post #108
kobrad wrote: post #97

This thing is a nightmare to install and uninstall. The installer is 170 megs and downloads god knows what, there is no uninstall, and when you try to do it manually you see it spawned three or four processes without letting you know. This is incredibly amazingly malware like if you ask me

The installer is 170mb after unpacking - it is just an electron app (for providing you GUI) connected to our installation manager. The command line installation managar is very lightweight (around 2mb) - we will provide it as an alternative to the graphical one. We will try to make the electron app smaller. The installer downloads Luna Studio - The graphical environment and Luna compiler and installs it on your compu…

Have you considered using NSIS or Inno Setup to create the installer instead?

https://sourceforge.net/projects/nsis/

http://www.innosetup.com/isinfo.php

Re: Luna 1.0 Beta is out

#167

Post by wdanilo »

bringtheaction wrote: post #166
wdanilo wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The installer is 170mb after unpacking - it is just an electron app (for providing you GUI) connected to our installation manager. The command line installation managar is very lightweight (around 2mb) - we will provide it as an alternative to the graphical one. We will try to make the electron app smaller. The installer downloads Luna Studio - The graphical environment and Luna compiler and installs it on your compu…

Have you considered using NSIS or Inno Setup to create the installer instead? https://sourceforge.net/projects/nsis/ http://www.innosetup.com/isinfo.php

We didn't have thought that Electron have such big size overhead when choosing it. In fact we just wrongly assumed that it will be lightweight. We will make the installer lightweight in the future, however there are much more important tasks on our todo list now, so we will do it slowly. We provide very light command line installers as well, so you can use it instead as you wish. Regarding these libraries, we want the installer to evolve into bigger app in the future - allowing you to install many Luna versions side by side, uninstall them or switch the current version. Moreover, we wanted to provide unified experience across platforms. It seems that something like QtQuick will be better suit here, but I haven't investigated it good enough yet to be sure it is the best choice.

Re: Luna 1.0 Beta is out

#168

Post by wdanilo »

dman wrote: post #153
wdanilo wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

arnioxux, thanks for sharing your thoughts here! I completely agree, that double representation is the killing feature of Luna. Personally, I do not believe we can progress in the domain of software design by removing the textual form. Because of that, we have designed Luna to be textual-visual, so tightly integrated, it is just one thing. For example, you can write any expression above our nodes, let it be `2+2` or…

What problem domains do you think are the best targets for this way of programming?

I've described it in detail on our blog post here: https://medium.com/@luna_language/luna-the-visual-way-to-cre...

Re: Luna 1.0 Beta is out

#169

Post by wdanilo »

qwerty456127 wrote: post #164
wdanilo wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for your your impressions, we would try to improve it as much as we can. Answering your ideas: 1) You do NOT have to provide your email address, just type there anything if you don't want to provide your real address (it is not validated in any way), however, we would be very thankful if you provide your address, so we can track now how many people are using Luna and if there are any problems happening when…

There is little (if any) virtue in developing a single installer to work on all platforms. People want a drag-and-drop app image for Mac, a PPA repository for Ubuntu and an MSI package for Windows and/or a simple "just extract and run" archive for their platform.

When we are thinking about simple installation process, you are completely right! However, when creating Luna, we were aware that if it will be used in real-world environment and people will create big projects using it, we would need to handle installation and updating in a very careful way. So our "installer" allows you to install and manage many Luna versions side-by side and switch between them on demand. So if something stopped working after an update, you can be sure that switching to previous version would work. These kind of tasks are handled by Luna Manager currently, which is connected to the simple Electron GUI. So even if we provide such "native" installation functionality, we would need some lightweight gui system if we would like to keep this secure installation management. We will definitely look for more lightweight solutions here.

Re: Luna 1.0 Beta is out

#170

Post by wdanilo »

CapacitorSet wrote: post #51
kustosz wrote: post #2

Hi, I'm one of Luna founders, I'll be happy to answer any questions! :)

The examples list failed to download, so I had the pleasure to try to program on my own (no, I'm not ironic, it's actually rather fun!) with the help of a bit of knowledge about functional programming. The most important thing, i.e. the concept behind the language, is very cool. Though not a groundbreaking idea, the visual model is certainly an interesting outlook on understanding programming that goes beyond the tri…

Thank you! We will do our best to make Luna the most powerful visual language ever created!
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