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Bill and Melinda Gates Are Paying Off Nigeria's $76M Debt to Japan

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Re: Bill and Melinda Gates Are Paying Off Nigeria's $76M Debt to Japan

#161

Post by TeMPOraL »

DoofusOfDeath wrote: post #117
jsmeaton wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft did some shitty things. But really, the main thing people worry about was bundling a browser with the OS for free 20 years ago . Take a look at some of the shit companies are getting away with these days without a quarter of the hate. You think spending billions of his own money every single year is about cleaning up his image over the anti-trust case? Give me a break.

One could reasonably argue that some of "his" wealth was obtained illegally. So what he's really doing os disposing of money that rightfully belongs to others. That's only generous in a very perverse sensenof the word.

That's for courts to argue. He's not a criminal avoiding justice; anyone can sue it at any time for perceived wrongdoings. So far, the courts have been involved a few times in the past, and Microsoft paid the price determined by them.

(Personally, I don't care about that either. In my eyes, all the good Gates has done to this day already far outweighs any shady business practices Microsoft has been engaged in the past.)

Re: Bill and Melinda Gates Are Paying Off Nigeria's $76M Debt to Japan

#162

Post by Brotkrumen »

pizza234 wrote: post #160
nikanj wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lining the pockets of leaders and their friends is a cost-of-doing business in democracies. Yes, an economy would do better without that, but it very much does happen in all well-developed economies.

> it very much does happen in all well-developed economies. This type of statement is a logical fallacy (I'd like to know if it's formalized, and if so, what's the name), and I think it's one of the most common: "There is X in any country". Of course there is X in any country, but can be a radically different quantity and quality of X between two countries.

Is-ought fallacy with a bit of whataboutism?

Re: Bill and Melinda Gates Are Paying Off Nigeria's $76M Debt to Japan

#163

Post by TeMPOraL »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #150
hiram112 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gates is worshipped by most millennials, including the techies. For those of us who've been around for a while - as your reference to Slashdot points out - this can be surprising considering just how hated he was a decade or two ago when Microsoft was in a much different position than they are now. I still have a negative opinion of him, and feel his business practices were extremely negative to the world. But I will…

While homeless, I wrote a tongue in cheek piece about me fantasizing about becoming a provider of affordable housing. I concluded no one would sing my praises for that. Instead, I would be labeled a slumlord. You can't accomplish anything in this life without being hated for it.

> You can't accomplish anything in this life without being hated for it.

Yup. In case of accomplishing good for other people, that's sometimes called "the Copenhagen Interpretation of Ethics", per the article already linked elsewhere in this thread.

https://blog.jaibot.com/the-copenhagen-interpretation-of-eth...

Re: Bill and Melinda Gates Are Paying Off Nigeria's $76M Debt to Japan

#164

Post by gaius »

nikanj wrote: post #153
ramblerman wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given these regimes often are unstable politically and/or corrupt, what prevents new debt being made and filling the pockets of the leaders? In the Jeffrey Sachs model.

Lining the pockets of leaders and their friends is a cost-of-doing business in democracies. Yes, an economy would do better without that, but it very much does happen in all well-developed economies.

Lining the pockets of leaders

If you consider the most hated politician in the UK, Tony Bliar, he netted a personal fortune of estimated £20m. That’s a tiny fraction of what a dictator could amass in a far poorer country.

Re: Bill and Melinda Gates Are Paying Off Nigeria's $76M Debt to Japan

#165

Post by TeMPOraL »

ascorbic wrote: post #141
simplemath__ wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're getting downvoted... but this did happen, and is likely to blame for polio's continued presence in western pakistan. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-cia-fake-vacc...

And, let's not diminish this: it's probably to blame for polio existing at all now.

Exactly. It is my belief that the people who ordered this should have their asses dragged in front of the UN and should be tried for crimes against humanity.

You don't mess with vaccinations. Ever.

Re: Bill and Melinda Gates Are Paying Off Nigeria's $76M Debt to Japan

#166

Post by Brotkrumen »

ftoo wrote: post #28

Nigeria loses tens of billions of dollars a year to corruption, especially in their oil industry, especially among politicians. If I was Nigerian, I would find this sort of charity to be very embarrassing.

Hey there! I'm a citizen in a country where the current minister of finance was caught with a briefcase of 100.000 DM illegal "donations" from an arms manufacturer to the ruling party. The then-chancellor of 16 years took the fall to protect black party accounts, but nobody spent time in jail. That same party produces nepotism scandals in their home state but nobody cares because nepotism is an open secret through all state institutions. Every citizen knows this dt a continuing functioning press.

What is a German like me to do?

Re: Bill and Melinda Gates Are Paying Off Nigeria's $76M Debt to Japan

#167

Post by croon »

RobertRoberts wrote: post #157
roadbeats wrote: post #111

In return to handing Nigeria's agriculture industry to Monsanto; [1] https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/poverty-matte... [2] https://www.ecowatch.com/5-million-nigerians-oppose-monsanto...

Does anyone really think Bill Gates is a superior moral person with no ulterior motive at all? And if you think so, can you provide proof, or just assumption? History almost universally shows that the rich and powerful manipulate both the people and their image for their own good, not for the well being of the peasants.

> Does anyone really think Bill Gates is a superior moral person with no ulterior motive at all? And if you think so, can you provide proof, or just assumption?

> History almost universally shows that the rich and powerful manipulate both the people and their image for their own good, not for the well being of the peasants.

I never have any heroes, because they can all fall from grace. In Bills case I'm sure he did some unsavory things in the name of making that money at Microsoft, both in terms of industry and business.

However, "morals" is a construct. I don't mean that in a nihilist way, but merely in a "how do we even measure that?".

What we can do is judge him from his actions. Actions are proof of what he's doing. If that is our metric, then he is morally superior to a whole lot of especially rich people.

There are a lot of very rich people in the world. Some are sitting on their money. Some are using their money for lobbying and propaganda in order to accrue more money. Some are using their money for public good.

Bill Gates currently falls very much into the latter. If you want to criticize rich people, maybe don't start with the people actually doing something good, who've also pledged most of their money away.

Re: Bill and Melinda Gates Are Paying Off Nigeria's $76M Debt to Japan

#168

Post by DoreenMichele »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #163
DoreenMichele wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While homeless, I wrote a tongue in cheek piece about me fantasizing about becoming a provider of affordable housing. I concluded no one would sing my praises for that. Instead, I would be labeled a slumlord. You can't accomplish anything in this life without being hated for it.

> You can't accomplish anything in this life without being hated for it. Yup. In case of accomplishing good for other people, that's sometimes called "the Copenhagen Interpretation of Ethics", per the article already linked elsewhere in this thread. https://blog.jaibot.com/the-copenhagen-interpretation-of-eth...

Thank you for that.

I may need to pin that somewhere and just start writing a lot more ranty posts about women's issues and just accept that the entire goddamned world will accuse me of blaming the victim for trying to inject a half ounce of female empowerment into some lame, ignored personal blog with nearly zero traffic. Because, clearly, I am the single most evil person ever for thinking women can do something about women's issues other than whining about how men have all the power, so they need to just fix their shit, wah.

Re: Bill and Melinda Gates Are Paying Off Nigeria's $76M Debt to Japan

#169

Post by B1FF_PSUVM »

rgossiaux wrote: post #132
hiram112 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gates is worshipped by most millennials, including the techies. For those of us who've been around for a while - as your reference to Slashdot points out - this can be surprising considering just how hated he was a decade or two ago when Microsoft was in a much different position than they are now. I still have a negative opinion of him, and feel his business practices were extremely negative to the world. But I will…

The thing is, it seems pretty clear-cut to me that the good that Gates has done with his foundation has far exceeded any bad that was done through MS business practices. It's hard for me to take seriously the idea that things like aggressively stifling competing software is the same or larger magnitude as helping millions of people in the developing world with basic things like nutrition, sanitation, and disease prev…

> far exceeded any bad that was done

Mnh. How many billions of hours were lost to crappy software?

Which might have been supplied by better sources, if not for sharp operator practices.

(Spilled milk, anyways. But let's not say it was without cost.)

Re: Bill and Melinda Gates Are Paying Off Nigeria's $76M Debt to Japan

#170

Post by Dolores12 »

ramblerman wrote: post #146
somberi wrote: post #114

A book by Jeffrey Sachs, The End of Poverty, argues in favor of this approach where, wealthy individuals or nations help write off debt of poorer countries. The cost of servicing this debt is often crushing enough that no meaningful uplifit is possible from their current poverty. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_End_of_Poverty

Given these regimes often are unstable politically and/or corrupt, what prevents new debt being made and filling the pockets of the leaders? In the Jeffrey Sachs model.

There could be problem when those leaders will try to spend all that money in more developed countries.
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