Chile’s salmon farms may use more antibiotics than any other meat industry • Hacker News Board

Re: Chile’s salmon farms may use more antibiotics than any other meat industry

#161

Post by jdietrich » Mon, Jan 15, 2018, 12:13 PM UTC

hueving wrote: post #147

jdietrich wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personal choices play a key role in advancing legislative change and facilitating effective enforcement. Legislation and enforcement only played a partial role in reducing the rate of driving while intoxicated. DWI was still normal and socially acceptable for decades after we started banning it. We changed our attitudes, we stigmatized the behaviour, we created new norms, we invented the concept of the "designated dr…

I strongly disagree with the attribution of drunk driving reductions to the culture. The culture is a byproduct of how significant the punishment has become, which is what really led to the reduction. Back in the 70s getting pulled over drunk was punished like running a red light (i.e. a nominal fine). The punishments were ratcheted up to now where a DUI results in a 10k fine in some states and an immediate license s…

The correlation just isn't there.

In the UK, the standard penalty for drink-driving has been the same since the early 70s - a 12 month driving ban and a modest fine for the first offence, a three year ban for a second offence and a possible prison sentence of up to 6 months for further repeat offences.

The penalties haven't changed in years, but the rate of drink driving has fallen drastically. What has changed is the culture. Persistent campaigning from both government and grassroots organisations has made drink driving completely unacceptable. Today, it would be considered perfectly reasonable - perhaps even admirable - to call the police on your own friend if you know that they're drink driving. There's now far less proactive enforcement of drink driving laws, because it's not a common enough offence to warrant random testing and the police expect to get tip-offs from the public. It's seen as a foolish and selfish thing to do, a marker of personal weakness, a sign that you're some kind of alcoholic.

Re: Chile’s salmon farms may use more antibiotics than any other meat industry

#162

Post by Entalpi » Mon, Jan 15, 2018, 12:24 PM UTC

enord wrote: post #14

swombat wrote: post #6

Do you feel helpless to stop the problem of antibiotics use in the meat industry? You’re not! Here’s a simple easy trick you can use to reduce its impact on the world: eat less meat. You don’t need meat in 3 meals a day. Reduce it to 1 meal a day and you’ve already reduced your antibiotics impact by 2/3. Cut down to one meat meal a week and that’s a 96% reduction. You’re not powerless. Vote with your wallet and your…

When has this attitude _ever_ been the solution to a shared-resource problem? I'm not being snarky, I want to know. It feels like solving traffic mortality by pasting a "drive carefully"-sticker inside the windshield, doing nothing other than establishing who is morally responsible.

Except for the fact that meat consumption is a major resoirce drain on the planet as a whole. Just think about the amount of land, energy, water, medicine and time it takes to produce one kilogram of meat and contrast this with alternative protein sources such as vegatables and you will find that just by reducing ones meat consumption you can cut a big part of your impact on the planet.

Re: Chile’s salmon farms may use more antibiotics than any other meat industry

#163

Post by _0w8t » Mon, Jan 15, 2018, 12:43 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #148

_0w8t wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Boycotting works through the stubborn minority rule [1]. Sometimes even less than 1% of the total population can enforce their rule for the whole country. This works as long as the rest of population finds the rule does not bother them match. [1] http://fooledbyrandomness.com/minority.pdf

Wait, wait, wait. I thought it was universally acknowledged that boycotts, generally, don't work , because you can almost never find and coordinate enough people that care.

The case of Kosher wine from the link shows how about 0.3% of population forced almost all wines in US to be Kosher by boycotting non-kosher wines. The important thing is that the minority should be distributed across the whole population uniformly.

Re: Chile’s salmon farms may use more antibiotics than any other meat industry

#164

Post by Feniks » Mon, Jan 15, 2018, 12:51 PM UTC

jopsen wrote: post #151

> Consumers are key to change Consumers are given responsibility for too many things. When I buy something I have to check how it impacts the environment, animal welfare, fair trade, worker impact, company social responsibility, price, antibiotic usage, palm oil usage, health impacts, allergens, various toxins, suspected list of toxic substances, company reputation, etc. When will it end? IMO this doesn't scale... Th…

I cut down on eating meat to 3 times a week but Burgers won't like that. An alternative is organic free range meat but damn that's too expensive.

Re: Chile’s salmon farms may use more antibiotics than any other meat industry

#165

Post by Moru » Mon, Jan 15, 2018, 1:34 PM UTC

_0w8t wrote: post #140

enord wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but farmed salmon is making a killing. How many documentaries before you quit sushi? Can you be a conscious consumer on all aspects of your consumption, can anyone?

For a longer term the usage of "killing" here can be quite literal due to potential for disaster with antibiotics. In shorter terms I can clearly see how conscious consumption affects local shelves in supermarkets. Like 5-4 years ago in Norway I has to go a special health food store to bye vegan products. Now the cheapest supermarkets offers it and one can get a vegan burger at local Macdonalds.

This is because the industry knows we are prepared to pay a lot more for less if we believe it is ecological. Look at all chains with their own eco branding that has its own criteria of what eco produced means.

Re: Chile’s salmon farms may use more antibiotics than any other meat industry

#166

Post by lukaslalinsky » Mon, Jan 15, 2018, 1:35 PM UTC

thriftwy wrote: post #159

petepete wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU is doing its part. The UK media ridiculed and undermined it constantly for "red tape". Now we're leaving; things will only get worse.

How about they stop demanding paperwork before any production is made, and instead go after actual trespassers by doing blind tests? Because, you know, as a consumer I fail to see how paperwork protects me from anything. Being expert at paperwork doesn't mean you're an expert of being a fair tradesman. Paperwork collectors mentality is precisely what we should beat off of bureaucracy.

Would you apply the same concept to drugs? Would you allow pharmaceutical companies to sell anything and catch them if they sell something that kills people? While it's not the same situation, the difference between food and drugs is not that great.

Re: Chile’s salmon farms may use more antibiotics than any other meat industry

#167

Post by tr0ut » Mon, Jan 15, 2018, 1:50 PM UTC

cageface wrote: post #128

tr0ut wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you trying to eat less meat? P.S. Good luck on a vegetarian diet with a 3500+ caloric intake. You'll be eating all day.

These people are all vegan: https://www.peta.org/living/other/vegan-bodybuilders/ You can definitely get 3500 calories per day on a meat-free diet, although it may take a bit more effort.

Wonder if those steroids are vegan.

Re: Chile’s salmon farms may use more antibiotics than any other meat industry

#168

Post by thriftwy » Mon, Jan 15, 2018, 2:00 PM UTC

lukaslalinsky wrote: post #166

thriftwy wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about they stop demanding paperwork before any production is made, and instead go after actual trespassers by doing blind tests? Because, you know, as a consumer I fail to see how paperwork protects me from anything. Being expert at paperwork doesn't mean you're an expert of being a fair tradesman. Paperwork collectors mentality is precisely what we should beat off of bureaucracy.

Would you apply the same concept to drugs? Would you allow pharmaceutical companies to sell anything and catch them if they sell something that kills people? While it's not the same situation, the difference between food and drugs is not that great.

I'm not sure about drugs, but the process they have right now also inspires zero confidence in me:

* It costs billions effectively confining market for a few huge conglomerates.

* It passes throuh drugs that turn out to not have any observable effect or which are worse than ones already on market.

* It did allow pushing opioids for the epidemic.

It's not pretty. It might be better than nothing in this extreme case, but that's a pretty low bar.

Re: Chile’s salmon farms may use more antibiotics than any other meat industry

#169

Post by tr0ut » Mon, Jan 15, 2018, 2:01 PM UTC

greglindahl wrote: post #109

tr0ut wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't think that was up for debate.

Uh, then why would a vegetarian be eating all day to get 3500+ calories?

Because it is true. You will be consuming a lot more food to maintain that level. I never said it is not possible. I don't mean pasta, bread and pizza either. If you took a healthy reasonable amount of clean meat and fish. Compared to a straight vegetarian diet. You will be eating a lot more food. If you do not agree with a meat diet or not that is a fact.

Re: Chile’s salmon farms may use more antibiotics than any other meat industry

#170

Post by tr0ut » Mon, Jan 15, 2018, 2:02 PM UTC

megaman22 wrote: post #111

greglindahl wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vegetarians eat calorie-heavy foods like fats, carbs, and protein, just like everyone else.

Arguably easier to eat a large number of calories on a vegetarian diet, than on its polar opposite, ketogenic diet. It's kind of hard work eating 3500 calories of just meat, eggs and cheese. Whereas that amount of bread, pasta, sweets, and other nominally vegetarian foodstuffs can be easily wolfed down.

Sure if you eat pizza, pasta and bread all day.