Adderall Risks: Much More Than You Wanted to Know • Hacker News Board

Re: Adderall Risks: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#161

Post by goldenkey » Sun, Dec 31, 2017, 4:10 AM UTC

wincy wrote: post #100

zschuessler wrote: post #51

If anyone here reading this needs the motivation or gentle reminder: you might not need Adderall anymore. I've used it to get ahead in software for the past ~8 years. I recently gave it up, but it was hard to realize that it was time. It might be time for you, too. The thing holding me back was fear. Fear I wasn't enough, that I couldn't be efficient. That I would get fired from my high position. Or even if I could m…

I really relate with this. It took extraordinary measures for me to get where I can work efficiently without Adderall. Adderall turned me into such a different person that my wife started to be scared of me. Just interrupting me from work was a landmine, I was so mean. The doctor just said “be nicer” when I asked him about Adderall and anger issues. I’m a fun and easygoing person and it was like that part of me would…

That's great (the lower stimuli regimen.) I envy your ability to discipline yourself for greater accomplishments in your future. Good luck friend!

Re: Adderall Risks: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#162

Post by goldenkey » Sun, Dec 31, 2017, 4:14 AM UTC

jasonlotito wrote: post #153

textor wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Life is not a playing field full of fun and games, even though you could frame it in terms of game theory. People want to be successful, not to evaluate their "innate" performance against other people. Moral justification for doping is unimportant, because it's arbitrary. In reality, however many competing actors make me miserably insecure by their superiority, whatever is their percentile relative to the general sam…

I did. Doesn't change what I said, nor should it. The OP was potentially offering dangerous advice. I see all too often people suggesting things about ADHD, medication and drugs that are dangerous. Speak with a medical professional. If you are taking drugs you have not been prescribed, see a doctor. As for your "want to be successful" argument, that's a fallacy. You are causing more harm by abusing drugs to get ahead…

Its terribly easy to be prescribed these drugs by doctors. I feel like you feel less responsible and even coy by pushing the discussion off onto the "See your doctor" rails. But what good is that when any psych will hand these drugs out like skittles?? I have 4 boxes of unused adderall sitting in my cabinets from a script I was given. Acting like doctors are going to solve whatever explanation you are obliged to give is just silly. Lets hear the whole story..

Re: Adderall Risks: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#163

Post by fragmede » Sun, Dec 31, 2017, 4:33 AM UTC

Analemma_ wrote: post #136

xocyabencl wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sports is a zero-sum game. Productive labor is not. The mathematician Paul Erdos used amphetamines to make many major breakthroughs. This was a great benefit for society, regardless of whether he perhaps took a professorship that some less productive mathematician would otherwise have obtained.

Promotions, and the salary/opportunity increases that come with them, absolutely are a zero-sum game. I’m a little baffled that anyone could think otherwise, actually.

Assuming the company is doing well, financially, it's not zero-sum if there's enough money for everyone to get a salary increase.

Re: Adderall Risks: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#164

Post by karmajunkie » Sun, Dec 31, 2017, 4:43 AM UTC

CydeWeys wrote: post #92

chimeracoder wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The point of a to-do list (or reminder in Google Calendar) is that it's constantly staring at you until you actually complete it. It sounds like you're using one-off calendar entries. I'm not suggesting that "try not having ADD", just suggesting you use mechanisms to remind you to do stuff that are persistent and thus work. No offense, but from what you're saying, it's pretty clear you don't understand how ADHD wor…

How does a persistent in-your-face reminder that does not go away until completed fail? I suppose severe procrastination or complete lack of willpower would do it, but are these not different from ADHD?

Its in your face.

For people with ADHD, its a distraction that's willfully ignored while you're trying to complete one of the other hundred things on your to-do list that are also screaming for attention, most of them in more-urgent-but-less-important ways that this attempt to schedule an appointment with yet another provider who's likely going to make you prove once again that your life is falling apart by jumping through your life story and maybe trying some alternative that makes you ill, cranky, and introduces some sexual dysfunction that gives you one more thing to worry about alongside the thoughts of whatdoigetdonethisweekpleasejustletmecrossoffonethingtoday that you wake up to each morning.

> severe procrastination or complete lack of willpower

This sounds an awful lot like the attribution of a moral failing to people that suffer from an issue with executive function as it pertains to attention. This might be why people keep telling you that you are clearly articulating an inability to empathize. Imagine a mindset in which your fundamental assumptions, which seem self-evident to you, do not apply. If it seems difficult to understand why anybody would want to live that way, congratulations, you've got something in common! Nobody else wants to live that way either—the difference is that we don't have much of a choice, which is why we all have such strong opinions about this topic.

Re: Adderall Risks: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#165

Post by emodendroket » Sun, Dec 31, 2017, 4:46 AM UTC

fragmede wrote: post #163

Analemma_ wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Promotions, and the salary/opportunity increases that come with them, absolutely are a zero-sum game. I’m a little baffled that anyone could think otherwise, actually.

Assuming the company is doing well, financially, it's not zero-sum if there's enough money for everyone to get a salary increase.

How does that work out for cost centers?

Re: Adderall Risks: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#166

Post by xocyabencl » Sun, Dec 31, 2017, 5:00 AM UTC

emodendroket wrote: post #155

xocyabencl wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While many industries have an element of zero-sum competition, that's not the default. Whether you're designing a car, doing a surgery, giving a haircut, cooking a hamburger, etc. you are giving something of value to your customers.

Even assuming (optimistically) that an exceptionally good hair stylist could somehow... uh, I don't know, be so good that they can hire more stylists? Assuming there's space?... it's pretty rare to have, say, multiple heads of the same department.

You could cut more people's hair by getting it done faster, or do a better job cutting each person's hair. The point is that jobs where productivity improvement is possible are very common. Economically, productivity and technology are equivalent, and are the basis for prosperity. Productivity is not, in general, zero-sum.

Re: Adderall Risks: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#167

Post by emodendroket » Sun, Dec 31, 2017, 5:11 AM UTC

xocyabencl wrote: post #166

emodendroket wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even assuming (optimistically) that an exceptionally good hair stylist could somehow... uh, I don't know, be so good that they can hire more stylists? Assuming there's space?... it's pretty rare to have, say, multiple heads of the same department.

You could cut more people's hair by getting it done faster, or do a better job cutting each person's hair. The point is that jobs where productivity improvement is possible are very common. Economically, productivity and technology are equivalent, and are the basis for prosperity. Productivity is not, in general, zero-sum.

The post uses accounting, which, well, maybe it's a different story if we're talking about complicated tax schemes that can save a lot of money, but in general I think we can say that if the workers are more productive fewer rather than more are needed.

Re: Adderall Risks: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#168

Post by png_hero » Sun, Dec 31, 2017, 9:04 AM UTC

fragsworth wrote: post #88

png_hero wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmmm, never heard of adding NAC. And do you supplement magnesium too? Your talking about things I’ve never heard of before, this does sound advanced. Any other things on your stack?

> Hmmm, never heard of adding NAC. And do you supplement magnesium too? > Your talking about things I’ve never heard of before, this does sound advanced. Any other things on your stack? The original article mentioned how society has determined it is "not okay for people with already-fine concentration to use it to become superhuman". The way you talk about this, though. Being impressed about someone's "advanced stack…

> I feel like your attitude is kinda offensive and disgusting. How much money have you made by abusing drugs in our rat race?

Yeah, I am kinda disgusted myself, but I am right on the cusp, and I am grasping at it. That last sprint. I’ve locked in 99.5%-tile wealth, but the next month to six will determine if I can get into 99.9%-tile, where the true game change is.

And I’m under no illusion, if I don’t bag this deal here for the 99.9%-tile (private aviation, super yacht and models) I’ll forever be stuck at 99.5%-tile (first class commercial, upper middle class lifestyle forever without having to work).

Just a little more... broke my way many times... just need this last bit...

Re: Adderall Risks: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#169

Post by thonos » Sun, Dec 31, 2017, 9:58 AM UTC

jglauche wrote: post #14

"We could still have a principled definition of ADHD. It would be something like “People below the 5th percentile in ability to concentrate, as measured by this test.” Instead, we use the DSM, which advises us to diagnose people with ADHD if they say they have at least five symptoms from a list. " I'm in Germany and I've been diagnosed with ADHD-PI lately (I am in my 30s) after seeing a private specialist about this…

Also from Germany but moved to Japan for work. I never suspected ADHD until someone here on hackernews hinted at it, and even then the idea just seemed absurd. Went to a doc and they suggested doing a "NIRS scan" while I perform a basic task (in my case playing rock paper scissors). I only later read that NIRS scans are only being trialed for ADHD so it seemed more like a quick money grab, but in either way my result graph looked a lot different than what an average graph should look like, hinting at depression and ADHD.

Had a conversation with my doctor about my symptoms and how I feel and concluded that yes, I pretty obviously have ADHD and that it might be the cause of my depression. Went to a second doc for a second opinion as well and he also concluded ADHD. So yeah, I was a little shocked but as someone else said "I suddenly felt like my life story made sense". A lot of the problems that I attributed to my personality felt explained. I talked to older classmates as well and even they said that yes, looking back it was pretty obvious that I have ADHD.

He directly prescribed me a test batch of Atomoxetine (strattera) for trying. At this point I still didn't think I actually had it but went with it anyway.

The side effects were nuts for a couple days but I pulled through. Because of the slow onset it's very hard to actually 'see' a difference but oh man, it feels like life became a lot more manageable: Less arguing in my head, less impulsive behavior, I can keep habits like going to the gym up without getting bored, less of a fight to start a task and so on.

Atomoxetine allows me to be myself, minus a few of the ADHD quirks. I still have attention issues, or am jumpy and hyper, but it is less than before and more manageable by me.

I am worried that once I go to a different country I will have exactly what you described: That I will be in a long queue waiting for my turn, or that clinics are just full and reject me. My current advantage is that I speak Japanese and that ADHD here is still a kind-of new field. Not many Japanese adults go to get diagnosed, so the Japanese docs are free while the English clinics are booked out months in advance.

Re: Adderall Risks: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#170

Post by ma2rten » Sun, Dec 31, 2017, 2:06 PM UTC

Yvain wrote: post #129

ma2rten wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am also from Germany, but moved to the US for work. I am 29. Recently someone suggested to me I might have ADHD. After learning more about it, I had a feeling that many adults with ADHD have: I suddenly felt like my life story made sense. People below the 5th percentile in ability to concentrate, as measured by this test. My health insurance made me take a CPT test and it indicated that I don't have ADHD. This mean…

1. Are you finding "approximately 5th percentile in the population" somewhere in the DSM, or did you make it up? 2. This is no longer considered true; see any of the recent research on adult ADHD. The last two are obviously good ideas, but they don't really winnow down the pool very much.

I am not an expert, I just did some research on my own. If you know more than I do please share.

1. There are normed rating scales. I assume OP was also tested on one when s/he filled out those additional forms. If I recall correctly they use the 5th percentile.

2. DSM-5 still requires symptom onset before the age of 12. As far as I know some researchers advocate raising the age limit further into adolescence, but don't want to get rid of it.