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How do you move out of a smarthome?

shkspr.mobi

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Re: How do you move out of a smarthome?

#161

Post by bdamm »

npongratz wrote: post #157
sumitgt wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sympathize with you. But you seem to be making the classic mistake of assuming that everyone's use-case and needs are same as yours. Just an example: > I'll walk over to the lightswitch and turn the lights on. What if you are someone who has trouble walking or has mobility issues. Can you imagine how convenient getting things done with voice could be? These sort of things can be life changing for some people.

The Clapper never needed to phone home to the mothership.

Modern voice activated neural nets don't either. I don't buy voice activated appliances specifically because they are online, but with a new generation of offline neural nets, I just may revisit that choice.

Re: How do you move out of a smarthome?

#162

Post by elihu »

I remember in one of Vernor Vinge's science fiction novels, whenever one space-faring civilization managed to capture a warship of another unfriendly civilization, they usually just melted it down for scrap metal because there was no way to trust all the embedded automation.

Re: How do you move out of a smarthome?

#163

Post by CaptSpify »

abiox wrote: post #146
titzer wrote: post #135

I just. don't. get. it. All of this home automation and internet of things hype is going to end in tears. Computers are just. not. secure. They're not even necessary in these applications. I don't want tech that includes massive amounts of software doing the job of simple things. It just is not necessary. I'll walk over to the lightswitch and turn the lights on. I'll set the thermostat and use its old-school timers t…

while i'm very skeptical of cloud-only smart-home devices, i'm absolutely all in on the general premise. i want to have every even remotely conceivable automation and assistance at my whim. if there isn't a secure lan-only option, then let's (as a community) create either open source options or start a business focusing on this as a competitive advantage.

I've always hated the idea of IoT, but I've always wanted a Network of Things. And they should obviously have a well-designed automatic dumb-mode fallback.

I don't need a lot of the connected features, but I want them because I can see their usefulness.

Re: How do you move out of a smarthome?

#164

Post by Balgair »

titzer wrote: post #135

I just. don't. get. it. All of this home automation and internet of things hype is going to end in tears. Computers are just. not. secure. They're not even necessary in these applications. I don't want tech that includes massive amounts of software doing the job of simple things. It just is not necessary. I'll walk over to the lightswitch and turn the lights on. I'll set the thermostat and use its old-school timers t…

> ... and teddy bears will work in a cyberwar with Russia

Why the future tense? Hasn't that been going on since 2015?

Re: How do you move out of a smarthome?

#165

Post by Chaebixi »

mcguire wrote: post #82
subway wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should probably start by changing the litterbox... More seriously though, this is a major pet peeve of mine. Many of these devices will also become completely unusable when the manufacturer decides to terminate the service. This is a big reason why I hesitate to pay for products that don't adhere to open standards, and allow for local/offline use as a primary mode.

I was just reading a review of a sous vide stick the other day that mentioned that issue. Fortunately, it supported Bluetooth...

Even Bluetooth is a no-go. What happens if the control is app no longer available or drops support for your model? Something like a sous vide stick should have control buttons.

Ditto for stuff like Roombas. I've noticed all the new ones have their schedules set via an app. WTF? My current one has buttons and that works just fine. I'm seriously thinking of getting a spare now.

Smartphones are great solution for controlling a lot of things, but it seems like we're in a place where people stupidly think it's the solution to control all things.

Re: How do you move out of a smarthome?

#166

Post by kmmlng »

cr1895 wrote: post #68
vincentkriek wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is leaving lights in the house you sell an American thing? Unless it's built in lights like spots, all the bulbs and even fixtures usually move with the person where I'm from (the Netherlands).

The whole "take the floor with you when you leave the apartment" thing that is common in the Netherlands is really very bizarre to Americans.

Not just to Americans. I'm an expat in the Netherlands and interact with lots of people who came here from various different countries. It's bizarre to everyone.

Seems like there are two options. (1) You can do it the Dutch way, i.e. every time someone moves they'll have to take their floors out. Those floors often won't fit into your new apartment, so you're just creating lots of waste. Not to mention all the effort associated with it. You will have to remove the floors, but also the person moving into your place will have had to remove the floors from their old place. (2) You leave the floors in when you move out. Then the new tenant/owner can decide whether to keep them or not. In the worst case, both new and old inhabitant will still decide to remove the floors. In the best case, no one will have to do anything and no waste is created.

So what could possibly be gained from the first way of doing things? Genuinely curious if someone knows the reasoning behind this.

Re: How do you move out of a smarthome?

#167

Post by kelnos »

patorjk wrote: post #156
tradersam wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Y'know, after a decade on Internet forums, I've found saying "I know I'm going to get downvoted, but—" usually leads to downvotes, while simply stating your position gets judged on actual merit rather than self pity. Just my ฿ 0.0002.

I would actually speculate that it's the opposite. Though not exactly the same, 2 of my 3 most upvoted comments on reddit (465 and 510 votes) contain edits where I ask about why I'm getting downvoted. As soon as I added that question in, the voting seemed to switch directions. It's like people took a second more to think about the comment rather than just acting on emotion. I think that's why the saying has survived…

For what you've described, I agree: if you write a post, get downvotes, and then add an edit wondering about the downvotes because you're genuine about your position and are looking to engage, people tend to start engaging in kind and upvote you at least to neutral.

But I think the parent is talking about the habit of many who are about to post a counter-groupthink or controversial opinion to lead off with "I know I'm going to get downvoted for this, but...". My feeling there is that people generally view that as a sort of flippant disregard/dismissal of the community moderation process, so it basically _invites_ downvotes.

Re: How do you move out of a smarthome?

#168

Post by jhkim »

aldanor wrote: post #155
tradersam wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Y'know, after a decade on Internet forums, I've found saying "I know I'm going to get downvoted, but—" usually leads to downvotes, while simply stating your position gets judged on actual merit rather than self pity. Just my ฿ 0.0002.

You surely meant 0.000002 :)

[Off-topic] Shouldn't it be 0.00000002? As in 2 sts, since 2 cents is 2 x the smallest denomination.

Re: How do you move out of a smarthome?

#169

Post by khedoros1 »

mikeash wrote: post #153
khedoros1 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The garage door opener works when you push a button. What button? I've got a detached garage, so it doesn't make sense to have a button inside. And when the previous residents were (apparently) evicted, they took various keys, remotes, etc with them. I most certainly had to buy a remote and find my garage door opener's manual to get it working. Damned if I was going to pay a garage door repairman to come out and hi…

This scenario is covered under "If it doesn't work, you call a garage door or HVAC company and they fix it." Your typical HN reader is probably willing and able to reprogram the thing on their own, but this is not normal.

You say it's covered; I disagree, which is why I responded. HVAC? Maybe; it's sometimes hooked into the gas lines, with wiring through the walls and such. I feel like it's condescending to assume that most people would be unwilling or unable to pair a remote with a garage door opener, though.

Re: How do you move out of a smarthome?

#170

Post by kelnos »

titzer wrote: post #135

I just. don't. get. it. All of this home automation and internet of things hype is going to end in tears. Computers are just. not. secure. They're not even necessary in these applications. I don't want tech that includes massive amounts of software doing the job of simple things. It just is not necessary. I'll walk over to the lightswitch and turn the lights on. I'll set the thermostat and use its old-school timers t…

I think we're still early-days for a lot of this home control stuff. The value is still pretty dubious in many cases, and all the vendors seem to think that these devices need to be internet-connected, whether to phone home about usage, provide access from outside the home, or just to receive updates. Obviously both of those things can be incredibly problematic wrt security and privacy, but sadly most companies don't care, and/or hope that the supposed benefits outweigh any concerns (they shouldn't, but often do).

I have an Echo Dot and a couple Hue bulbs in my apartment. The light switch setup is awkward so I end up having to walk in the dark a bit when I get home before I can turn on the lights. Being able to voice-activate the lights as I enter my apartment (or just have the Philips app automatically turn them on when my phone is close enough to home) is useful. Is it essential? No, of course not. Am I concerned about security/privacy? Yes. I've decided that the security risk of someone being able to turn a couple of my lights on and off without my permission isn't that big a deal.

I just picked up a Google Home Mini on discount over the Thanksgiving holiday. I like that I can tell it to play music on my Chromecast, or start Netflix videos on my TV. Again: not essential. But it's a hell of a lot more convenient than fumbling with my phone to do the same things.

My goal longer term is to build an open-hardware, open-software home assistant that can do most things without needing to leave the local network. There are a few projects out there already that do this, or subsets of it, but so far I haven't found much that meets my requirements.

But I totally agree that in many cases these things aren't necessary. They can make things more convenient, but in the absence of, say, someone with mobility or motor control issues, they're not essential. But, say, Google Maps isn't essential either (we have perfectly good paper maps), but I sure as hell wouldn't give it up. I do expect that home control will mature to a point where it's not just a "nice to have" anymore, but I figure we're years, if not decades, from that point.

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