>> "Anecdotaly, about 20% of new hires under 30 don’t understand the concept of showing up on time (or at all)" Don't kid yourself. Those new hires are at other jobs making more money. I am booked for a roofer in feb 2018 (fingers crossed - friend of a friend). Blue skills are in extremely high demand. And those guys are working extremely hard making really high incomes (400k+). These guys are highly paid and are not…
This reminds me of the observation[1] that most applicants for programming positions can't implement FizzBuzz. This has led some to conclude that the majority of programmers would be stumped by the task, but it is more likely that such programmers are overrepresented in the applicant pool. 1. http://wiki.c2.com/?FizzBuzzTest
Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?
161–170 of 606 posts
Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?
#162Does every paragraph needs to rephrase that it isn't thanks to Trump? Maybe I'm wrong but lately it seems every US media outlet needs to mention him this way or another in every topic possible (positive or negative light)
Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?
#163Earlier quoted context omitted.
I imagine there's an opportunity for a startup that let's someone who wants to do a simple job themselves Facetime with a plumber to talk them through the work. No idea if there's any profit in it though.
"Now grab a 3ft section of copper tubing, cut it to length with your pipe cutter, bend it with your copper bending tool, and flare it with your flare clamp... what, you don't have any of those? Wellll.."
Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?
#164Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Employers need to provide reasonable accommodations if you're able to fulfill the job. How does an individual make sure that rule is enforced?
Start with putting in an effort with the employer, and your final means would be the justice system. It's the law. But you could start with the manager, move on to HR, move on to the courts if you need to. And don't skip levels. Only elevate as necessary.
And then you're in a situation where you've raised litigation at past employers, and that will follow you around.
The point is, the worst possible situation to be in is that everyone knows you're narcoleptic and knows you're not choosy about raising legal action. No one will touch you. The best option seems to be to conceal it and part ways as amicably as possible.
Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?
#165Earlier quoted context omitted.
Setting aside my particular company, your response is just more evidence of the culture change I'm talking about. Not every job is going to engage you or enable you to make the kind of difference you want to make in the world. The notion that this is a valid excuse for telling your boss, "hey, pops, I'm not feeling engaged this morning, gonna be in later" is a new one . Maybe that's a good thing. Maybe not. But it's…
If I'm cutting pulpwood or stacking boxes in a warehouse, it doesn't really matter whether my brain is engaged or not; it's mechanical labor and damn near mindless anyway[1]. But if I'm writing code and solving problems, and my brain isn't in gear, I can come sit at the desk for eight hours, but I'm not going to get anything accomplished, except building resentment for having to sit there at the desk for eight hours…
I've worked in jobs I wasn't engaged by, was able to finish university (not fun), and am starting to get bored at my current job, but I can't leave just yet due to external circumstances. I believe character is a big part of it, but it doesn't change the fact that I'm posting to hacker news during work hours.
Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?
#166Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's important that businesses answer the question and stick to it. Do they want people to work a set schedule or not? Or businesses can make demands, but in this labor market they'll have to pay for people to meet 'em. I can promise to be in my chair at 9 am everyday, but I want to leave at 5 and if I'm tired, the business gets to pay for a less than productive day.
If they want me commuting during both morning and evening rush hour, they better pay a premium over companies that let me work around commuting. The extra 30+ minutes per day stuck in traffic or on trains does not come for free.
Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?
#167Earlier quoted context omitted.
I imagine there's an opportunity for a startup that let's someone who wants to do a simple job themselves Facetime with a plumber to talk them through the work. No idea if there's any profit in it though.
That would be pretty funny, but plumbing can be pretty damned complex work. I could see some potential in apprenticeships taking place remotely, though. At least in the latter years of one. And maybe compliance tests, journeyman tests, etc — depending on the nature of the work. And in that case, less Skype, and more AR.
Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?
#168Earlier quoted context omitted.
I imagine what dionidium is getting at is the lack of good, reasonable cause to either not show up or be late. For example, I'm fortunate enough to have a high paying job in the finance industry and our office/company is pretty laid back and very good about the work/life balance thing. But managers here would react in two different ways to people being out late drinking and oversleeping vs. there being a massive acci…
> The younger crowd seems to be largely detached from the idea of responsibility that was drilled into previous generations. My father graduated college making $42k/yr. Inflation adjusted, that was about $60k/yr in today's dollars. I just graduated, have experience in the field, and am getting a salary of $35k/yr in today's dollars. Meanwhile, upper management is getting millions. In that kind of work environment, wh…
Those issues aside, your answer is basically my entire point: "why _should_ I care? It's not like they're going to fire me." I'm not sure why your employer won't fire you. Maybe they have trouble finding decent people to fill positions. I honestly don't know since I don't know what you do or who you work for. But regardless, your comment goes straight to the concept of work ethic.
It sounds like you are throwing work ethic to the wayside simply because you don't feel you get paid enough. That, in my opinion, is not the way to do things. Guess what, a lot of people are underpaid. I also have the viewpoint that you agreed to accepting the salary you are getting paid. They made an offer and you accepted it, presumably because it was the prevailing market rate for your skill set. If you feel that your compensation package is not appropriate then you should have a conversation about that with your manager - and leave the firm if necessary. It wasn't that long ago that I made about 45k. For the first 5 years out of school (starting in 2007) I worked for around that pay level. I did the daily grind and I tried hard to add value to the business where I could, because I wanted to not stagnate and just go through the motions because I viewed that as the worse path to take. I stayed late when necessary. Eventually another firm interviewed a bunch of people in my office, myself included, for a position that paid significantly more because they wanted to poach the right person to take onto their team. Guess who got the job. I even found out about 6 months later when speaking to the MD of my new employer that the CFO called him up and congratulated him on hiring me. I had no idea the CFO of my old company had me on his radar or was the type to make that kind of call. 3 years after that another opportunity presented itself solely because I had a strong reputation. That was another substantial bump on the pay ladder.
My point with the personal story is not to brag at all - hell, I certainly don't have some sort of prestigious job and there are plenty of people on this board alone that make more than I do. My point is that I highly recommend you change your mindset and the way you approach all of this. Ask yourself this. If I didn't work for the man, so to speak, as an underpaid entry level grunt for those 5 years, do you think I would have gotten that other job over my colleagues? That also would have not made the second job change (and pay increase) possible. Bringing it a little closer to home for you...if an employer interviewed you and your colleagues and had a job which paid a lot more, do you think you would get the offer or would someone else? Also, take a look at how someone successful in your line of work operates (a Director or MD, perhaps). Are they the kind of person that would share the same attitude as you? I imagine not. They would most likely either renegotiate their compensation or they would leave. I know that's how the higher ups would act where I am. The idea with all of this is to think and act like a successful person so that you can greatly increase your odds of success. It also has the benefit, in many cases, of also being the "right thing" to do. Contrary to popular belief, being a "company man" is usually still rewarded as long as you work for an employer which has basic common sense when it comes to employee compensation and morale.
And if all of that has not resonated with you at all, then consider this alternative argument. You can view it as that old joke about the two friends who are hiking and they come across a bear and one of them puts on running shoes. The other friend explains they can't outrun the bear and the first guy responds, "I don't need to outrun the bear, I just have to outrun you". What I mean by this is that you are always viewed relative to your colleagues. So the first thing you want to ensure is that you are thought well of enough so that if the layoffs come around, you won't be on the list. That might be the case with you since you said they wouldn't fire you. The second part of that is to make it so that when an opportunity arises, you are on that list, whether for promotion, project, etc. My guess here is that you are not. So I assume that you are currently headed towards no-man's-land with your approach. They won't fire you but you will not be given the chance to shine because they see no upside in taking any risk on you. But if you really apply yourself you just might find that after a while your situation is looking very different. I sincerely hope this helps you in some way.
Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?
#169I work at a medium-sized software company. We've had similar problems with younger employees. Guys literally posting in company-wide Slack channels that they're "feeling a little sleepy this morning, gonna be in later." Can you even imagine somebody saying that to their boss in some black-and-white movie from the 1940s? "Hey, how about instead of coming in later you hit the bricks and never come back?" The culture ha…
I'd prefer my software developers with a sharp mind than sleepy zumbis that are just physically present.
Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?
#170The gap is closing but it means amenities are getting more expensive and since the people in the middle aren't getting raises it just isn't attractive to work in a smarter role
Right, and as fewer people go into middle class jobs, demand for those workers will increase and will lead to increased wages. This is what inflation is. It's all a function of supply and demand.