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Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

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Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#161

Post by bitexploder »

audunw wrote: post #134
nrclark wrote: post #5

My work gave me one of the 2016 15" MBPs as my main computer, and the keyboard is horrible. My V key double-presses about half the time, and the rest of the keys are really hard to press down all the way. Some of the keys make a weird metal rattle when I press them. Typing on that wretched keyboard for more than an hour or so literally bruises my fingers. Since I do most of my day-to-day work at a dock with an extern…

> Who the hell decided that programmers don't need a functional ESC key or permanent function keys? I'm still amazed that there are programmers that complain about this. As a programmer, I've avoided ESC and the function keys for years before the touchbar came out. Apple has even had a built-in option in Mac OS to remap ESC to Caps Lock, for quite a while now. And considering how conservative Apple is when it comes t…

Key travel and key response is far more than a near irrelevant thing for folks with RSI. Some people can literally cure RSI with the right keyboard that encourages the right typing habits.

Maybe it is a small enough percentage of the population that it doesn't matter, but this is hacker news and we care a about a lot of strange and esoteric things here that only a small percentage of the population care about anyway. If Dell can make a 15" laptop with a full number pad Apple can find a way to have a less shitty keyboard with an escape key and maybe don't force the touch bar on everyone. It doesn't have to be a popular consumer option. You can hide it in an esoteric out of the way place for us esoteric out of the way users, but... it is ridiculous to ignore the hard core tech fan base and keyboard issues.

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#162

Post by akvadrako »

IanCal wrote: post #77
threeseed wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can use it for things wouldn't normally remember or that require arcane key commands. Two buttons I use are to Expand/Collapse All Code Folds.

I think the main point is that you could just map those to function keys. I think I've only seen one main use that works well with the bar, and that's scrubbing through video or audio.

But you have to remember what the function keys do, so you are ignoring the primary point of the touch bar.

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#163

Post by cjbillington »

danpalmer wrote: post #156

I quite enjoy typing on the new keyboard (2017 MBP), and have not had any issues. My only minor criticism would be that the up and down arrows are a little tricky to hit quickly without looking, but it's really minor for me. Overall, in my experience, this was a solid upgrade on the previous keyboard (which I had to use a few days ago to prepare my old MBP to be sold).

Yeah, these up and down arrows are a bit of a disappointment. I have a Dell XPS which has the same half-height keys for up and down. I hit the wrong one all the time. Guess I should enable system-wide vim or emacs bindings or something.

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#164

Post by bitexploder »

bluejekyll wrote: post #145
ux-app wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes I agree. I don't know how hardware teams with such a stellar track record as Apple have can make such awful decisions. The first time I used the new keyboard I thought that it was broken in some way (how is a shorter key travel a better thing?), and the touch bar is just stupid. I've seen people use them and the awkward way they have to stop what they're looking doing, orient themselves with the silly little scre…

I love the short throw keys. Obviously everyone has their own personal preferences. I feel like my fingers are dancing across the new keyboard. Initially I disliked the size of the keys, but now when I go back to an older keyboard I realize I even prefer those. (Edit: I still dislike the arrow keys, those suck). Apple’s big problem is that they cater to everyone with a single offering. And since the keyboards are cut…

Expensive, for a company with a ridiculous cash stockpile. I think many users would trade a touchbar in for a better keyboard and a slightly heavier laptop (acknowledging you won't be able to get a laptop as thin with a different type of key). This is a really important issue for a pretty significant chunk of their core tech audience. If Dell can manage the complexity of their product line and all the options they have, then Apple can budge a little on the mono-design of their laptop product lines. I get it on phones and they already proliferated their phone options too much IMO, but laptops, especially since you can put that out of the way as a custom order on the web site for people that really care, just seems like an obvious thing. That or figure out how to make everyone happy.

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#165

Post by lghh »

danpalmer wrote: post #158
nrclark wrote: post #5

My work gave me one of the 2016 15" MBPs as my main computer, and the keyboard is horrible. My V key double-presses about half the time, and the rest of the keys are really hard to press down all the way. Some of the keys make a weird metal rattle when I press them. Typing on that wretched keyboard for more than an hour or so literally bruises my fingers. Since I do most of my day-to-day work at a dock with an extern…

> Who the hell decided that programmers don't need a functional ESC key or permanent function keys? a) I'm a developer, I do not use traditional function keys and would much rather have media keys, etc. b) This laptop is not just for programmers. It is designed for many people, many of whom could benefit significantly (applications in video/music editing look very useful).

> a) I'm a developer, I do not use traditional function keys and would much rather have media keys, etc.

Function keys also served as media keys.

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#166

Post by ryanbertrand »

dillondoyle wrote: post #13
nrclark wrote: post #5

My work gave me one of the 2016 15" MBPs as my main computer, and the keyboard is horrible. My V key double-presses about half the time, and the rest of the keys are really hard to press down all the way. Some of the keys make a weird metal rattle when I press them. Typing on that wretched keyboard for more than an hour or so literally bruises my fingers. Since I do most of my day-to-day work at a dock with an extern…

My biggest beaf with the TouchBar: volume takes two clicks! Instead of an up down and mute button, I get mute and volume which then opens a slider to the left of the click. So instead of just clicking once to lower volume I have to click, move my finger and slide. It would be so easy to allow custom button to add back on (and maybe there is that I haven't been able to find?) I also accidentally 'touch my pinky finger…

I was having the rogue pinky issue as well. I disabled the app awareness of the touchbar and then added flex space to that area where my pinky would hit. It works great but now the touch bar is useless (which is fine by me).

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#167

Post by bitexploder »

KGIII wrote: post #113
micaksica wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your story resonated with me because I had the same experiences with a 12” MacBook. While I can’t really use you as an example, since you kind of need a Mac for a lot of the work you do specifically, I’ve heard the same complaints about Apple hardware from other long-time Mac users that don’t actually need to have a Mac. I am curious how many of those of us that don’t need macOS day to day have voted with their walle…

I am quite fond of the mobile workstations from Titan. They are a bit heftier, but I'm okay with that. You can customize them into real beasts.

I am going to give the Dell Precision 7520 a whirl. Xeon processor. ECC RAM. No mic/camera. Full size keyboard. Decent discrete graphics. Comes with Ubuntu.

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#168

Post by bitexploder »

Chaebixi wrote: post #138

Don't worry everyone! Apple's going to fix this in the next version by replacing the keyboard with a touch screen!

Don't give them ideas. Just... don't. The all new Electro Tactile Keyboard. It is the most amazing typing experience you have ever had on a keyboard.

3 years later everyone is wandering around with claws for hands, having forgotten what real keyboards do for human to computer interaction.

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#169

Post by cytzol »

mFixman wrote: post #125
dillondoyle wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My biggest beaf with the TouchBar: volume takes two clicks! Instead of an up down and mute button, I get mute and volume which then opens a slider to the left of the click. So instead of just clicking once to lower volume I have to click, move my finger and slide. It would be so easy to allow custom button to add back on (and maybe there is that I haven't been able to find?) I also accidentally 'touch my pinky finger…

You can add "Volume Up" and "Volume Down" keys, along with other useful functions, in the initial touchbar view by going to the settings.

I've been wanting to do this for ages, but I can only find the volume slider! Could you tell me how to put Volume Up and Down buttons on there please?

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#170

Post by ryanbertrand »

My keyboard is currently double adding ‘b’ when I click on the B key. Very annoying and leads to variable name bugs when I don’t catch it.

I just received my MacBook Pro back from service 2 weeks ago (I had popping/cracking noises coming from the hinge / case when opening the computer or when heating up or down). I don’t remember this B issue happening before :(

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