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Flatiron School settles for operating without license, employment/salary claims

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Re: Flatiron School settles for operating without license, employment/salary claims

#161

Post by KGIII »

lovich wrote: post #133
lloyd-christmas wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> CS majors are also doing 2-4 internships which are by and large more formational experiences than a bootcamp This seems like a left turn from my comment. Nowhere did I say bootcamps are a replacement for formal education. I was comparing the value of time in the workforce vs. time spent in school. I was discussing finance majors who, shockingly, also do internships. I don't know anyone that took a bootcamp as a rep…

I've worked exactly one job that routinely took more than 40 hours/week and I make sure to not fall into that trap again. 50 hours a week standard is the same as a 20% per hour pay cut

Only if you're not paid by the hour.

Re: Flatiron School settles for operating without license, employment/salary claims

#162

Post by KGIII »

wallace_f wrote: post #91
cat199 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> take exams to do this and who manufactures these magical exams you speak of, and on what authority?

They're not magical. If I want to be a doctor, there are two primary sets of exams I need to take: 1-the MCAT, and 2-the USMLE. Both sets are managed by non profits. There should be no reason why a poor minority, boy or girl, struggling to make ends meet in a rough neighborhood cannot get online, self study, and one day go and take a seat for these exams. In fact, this should be subsidized by government more than uni…

Wait... You think someone should be allowed to self-study, take a test, and be a medical doctor?

You can do this with some professions, but I'd like to think my medical doctor has had actual experience with living people and cadavers.

Re: Flatiron School settles for operating without license, employment/salary claims

#163

Post by downrightmike »

amigoingtodie wrote: post #85

Does anyone have a recommendation for a good bootcamp? I have an employee (graphic design) that has shown an aptitude in web development, but I do not have the time to devote to mentoring him. I can afford to send him to a bootcamp, but stories like this make me hesitant. Also, I have a front-end guy and a CS intern, who both could benefit from a SQL bootcamp (as another poster mentioned, team development, source con…

1. https://www.freecodecamp.org/ 2. https://www.pluralsight.com/courses/introduction-to-sql 3. https://www.pluralsight.com/ Has lots of great concise courses. You can even speed up or slow down the play back. Especially would be good to get started now, vs in a few months.

Re: Flatiron School settles for operating without license, employment/salary claims

#164

Post by wallace_f »

KGIII wrote: post #162
wallace_f wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not magical. If I want to be a doctor, there are two primary sets of exams I need to take: 1-the MCAT, and 2-the USMLE. Both sets are managed by non profits. There should be no reason why a poor minority, boy or girl, struggling to make ends meet in a rough neighborhood cannot get online, self study, and one day go and take a seat for these exams. In fact, this should be subsidized by government more than uni…

Wait... You think someone should be allowed to self-study, take a test, and be a medical doctor? You can do this with some professions, but I'd like to think my medical doctor has had actual experience with living people and cadavers.

Read my post again. Someone should be able to circumvent the academic complex's monopoly on credentials, as long as they can demonstrate the same aptitude and proficiency.

At that point, as I said, the hospital training is just a formality with some exceptions. Surgeons obviously need to demonstrate dexterity and composure. Candidates need to show up to work on time, etc.

Re: Flatiron School settles for operating without license, employment/salary claims

#165

Post by KGIII »

wallace_f wrote: post #164
KGIII wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait... You think someone should be allowed to self-study, take a test, and be a medical doctor? You can do this with some professions, but I'd like to think my medical doctor has had actual experience with living people and cadavers.

Read my post again. Someone should be able to circumvent the academic complex's monopoly on credentials, as long as they can demonstrate the same aptitude and proficiency. At that point, as I said, the hospital training is just a formality with some exceptions. Surgeons obviously need to demonstrate dexterity and composure. Candidates need to show up to work on time, etc.

That's marginally better. I'm still not sure I want a self trained physician. A lawyer who didn't go to school and still passed the bar is more acceptable.

We standardized for a reason. Could those standards be changed? Absolutely. I still don't think some poor person should be allowed online study and then to pass an exam and be a medical doctor.

Re: Flatiron School settles for operating without license, employment/salary claims

#166

Post by xapata »

lloyd-christmas wrote: post #92
got2surf wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Better" is tough to say - coding bootcamps are focused on getting a coding job, but university CS degrees are not (CS graduates going into other fields [like finance], research/grad school, etc). If the goal is to get a high-paying coding job as quickly as possible, bootcamps look good. Would be interesting to look at longer-term trends in a few years - career advancement, job type, management level, industry within…

A bit of a rant since I worked in the industry: > CS graduates going into other fields [like finance] Finance is just like every other high-professional industry, they train you for what you need to know because they are invested in your success. I worked in that industry for 6 years. Most banks run a 2-3 month internal bootcamp for fresh college hires. I was a math/econ double major and sat next to an english lit ma…

Strange. I've found my education has been highly relevant over the last 20 years.

Re: Flatiron School settles for operating without license, employment/salary claims

#167

Post by xapata »

cbhl wrote: post #57
wallace_f wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is incredibly annoying that access to education is held behind barriers of entry that discriminate based on socioconomics and race. Education has fallen behind industry demands and global standards. The industry has already failed this test of "demonstrating they actually know how to teach adult humans." 1. Education industry fails to meet industry demands and to offer fair, affordable education So, 2: Innovators…

Anyone can teach. Just look at the Khan Academy -- Sal started by just posting YouTube videos of his voice over Microsoft Paint. The thing that is held behind a barrier is issuing a credential. And it seems reasonable that someone generating diplomas (or claims they can teach you enough to get you a job) should itself be held to accreditation or a standards body. But we (software developers in industry) could be maki…

Not everyone can teach well. I've also found that folks who have never had a good teacher in a particular topic don't realize how much disparity there can be.

Re: Flatiron School settles for operating without license, employment/salary claims

#168

Post by andrewem »

sekh60 wrote: post #87
cbhl wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I went to a university, they got around this by making the syllabi as vague as humanly possible. They even would have a spare course code in each department which was just "whatever the professor feels like teaching, and if it's popular we'll turn it into a real course". Syllabi would avoid specifying the exact languages/frameworks/technologies taught in class.

We had something like that at UToronto Scarborough campus in philosophy. We had independent study course codes which were fourth year course codes where a student or small group of students could work with a prof to develop a custom course. Was amusing in that I think when I started studying there they only had I think four codes, but a friend of mine was there an extra two years and had taken everything upper level…

My university (in the United States) had a course code like this, except that it was allowed to be repeated so you could take it a number of times under the same course code.

Re: Flatiron School settles for operating without license, employment/salary claims

#169

Post by dilemma »

iskander wrote: post #29
fredleblanc wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having done some work for a school that's jumped through these hoops, I believe that it's a different definition of "approved." It's not "choose one of these curricula we made up and do that," it's "show us your complete curriculum and defend how this makes a complete program."

The response times on approval can be pretty terrible and you get peppered with a lot of dumb requests by reviewers who don't actually understand the material. (I grew up around my parents' vocational school, board of education interactions looked totally insane)

So what? That's how the world works. You don't get a free pass because you can code.

Re: Flatiron School settles for operating without license, employment/salary claims

#170

Post by wallace_f »

KGIII wrote: post #165
wallace_f wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read my post again. Someone should be able to circumvent the academic complex's monopoly on credentials, as long as they can demonstrate the same aptitude and proficiency. At that point, as I said, the hospital training is just a formality with some exceptions. Surgeons obviously need to demonstrate dexterity and composure. Candidates need to show up to work on time, etc.

That's marginally better. I'm still not sure I want a self trained physician. A lawyer who didn't go to school and still passed the bar is more acceptable. We standardized for a reason. Could those standards be changed? Absolutely. I still don't think some poor person should be allowed online study and then to pass an exam and be a medical doctor.

What's wrong with 'some poor person'studying and passing an exam to be a doctor?

Fwiw, I'm still saying we should have residencies.

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