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The Depression Thing

zachholman.com

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Re: The Depression Thing

#161

Post by noxToken »

notduncansmith wrote: post #149
pure_ambition wrote: post #84

People: PLEASE STOP recommending depressed people to take psychedelics. There is no such thing as "psychedelic therapy." Psychedelics can easily make people with mental health issues MUCH WORSE. Nobody needs a full blown existential crisis on top of major depression. I get it if you like the idea of doing psychedelics, but they are mind-altering in significant and poorly understood ways, and can easily cause others h…

I think we can assume that any suggested treatment has the potential to make things worse, and psychedelic therapy is no exception. Furthermore, in a scenario where one ends up in a "full blown existential crisis", it's likely that one did not undergo psychedelic therapy, one merely took psychedelics. Finally, just because you have an existential crisis doesn't mean it didn't work. Sometimes that's part of the healin…

I think what GP is getting at (somewhat anyway) is the people who say, "Drop acid or do shrooms at home. You'll come out a changed man." That's not psychedelic therapy. As you said, that's taking psychedelics in hopes of therapeutic benefits.

I've seen people say that a non-trivial amount of time in threads like these. It could work, but that's a huge gamble.

Re: The Depression Thing

#162

Post by slr555 »

Saying my family history is significant for depression is an extreme understatement. My parents and grandparents shared the sunny disposition of Henrik Ibsen. It was no surprise that I too suffered from major depressive episodes and dysthymia (persistent depressed mood over a long period of time).

It has been a long strange journey but by taking advantage of what the medical community has to offer I now am happier than I ever thought possible. One really important moment for me was the realization that everything is biology. There is no difference between physical and mental health. Migraine pain and the pain of depression both hurt. A heart attack and suicide make you the very same dead. Everything you think feel and do is modulated by the soup between your ears. If the soup is short of some ingredient or another it manifests as emotion or behavior.

The book Behave by Robert M. Sapolosky is a fantastic journey into the chemical basis for behavior. While the book is admittedly dense, Sapolosky clearly explains how neuroanatomy and neurochemistry form the basis of experience and consciousness. The writings of the late Oliver Sacks also illuminate how when the physical seat of perception and cognition, the brain, is disrupted in some way, our ability to perceive or what we perceive is fundamentally altered. A patient with a visual field disruption was only able to perceive half the food on their plate. Turn the plate around and the other half was experienced by the patient.

The human organism is insanely complex and nuanced. Human life is in cosmic terms is a trace of a blink. For anyone suffering from depression I would urge you to put aside any misgivings you have about labels and stigma, find the best doctor you can and start to address your depression. It's pretty great not to be miserable. I've tried both.

Re: The Depression Thing

#163

Post by projektir »

Some conundrums I have with this article and other folk here saying that you should get a therapist, that everyone should see a therapist, and you should listen to your therapist:

1. How do you find a good therapist, and given the disparity in their quality, why would you trust yours all that much?

2. Therapists can get very very expensive. Yes, including insurance. Very very expensive.

3. Therapists often can't meet you outside of business hours when you're often working.

Re: The Depression Thing

#164

Post by PantaloonFlames »

jlg23 wrote: post #153
ClassyJacket wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the most ridiculous and irrelevant warning I can imagine. Almost nobody us at risk of over exercising if they haven't started yet. It's like saying "Don't eat salad, I know someone that ate so much lettuce they got sick."

I fail to see the connection between ~"don't see exercising as a golden bullet against depression" and what you claim I've said.

you said "[exercise] might be good for a lot of depressive people, but definitely not for all."

Which is dead wrong. Exercise is good for humans, depressed or not.

You also said, "Before I turned twenty I met two people my age who took your advice and exercised until ambulances had to pick them up (literally). "

...apparently as a warning that exercise is dangerous. But as you can see, it's a ridiculous statement.

Sure, people should see a therapist. They should also exercise. Go for a walk. Move around. They should also gain some sleep discipline. Those are easy to start with. There's no mutual exclusion here. Just because someone is exercising and sleeping right, does not mean they cannot talk to a therapist.

Re: The Depression Thing

#165

Post by jansho »

Swizec wrote: post #38
ElatedOwl wrote: post #15

I was diagnosed with "major depression" when I was 14, did the medication and therapy thing for a bit but the medication made me a zombie. Therapy helped me learn to cope a little better, but I was never "cured" of my depression. My 20s have been pretty bad, but in the last year and a half I've lost 100+lbs and have been running and lifting. It turns out the common sense advice to depression was really what I needed…

Yup same here. Clinical depression in high school, meds, therapy, suicide watch the whole shebang. Fun times, can’t remember two years of my life. So far the only thing that’s actually worked has been staying busy/productive/creative, good nutrition, exercise etc. Everyone always tells me I’m an insensitive dick when i suggest getting off their ass and doing stuff to treat their depression. But fuck it, that shit wor…

Yes it’s insensitive the way you put it, but being in motion is crucial. Don’t aim to “change lifestyle”, instead focus on doing very small things. When I had chronic depression, making my bed was a big thing. If you trip over again, nevermind, do another small thing like washing the cup you’ve just drank from. Or getting out of bed. But whatever action it is, pretend that you’re a robot and focus your consciousness to the task. Nothing else, because you’re a robot.

It might take a long time to build up but the hardest part really is the first part. Hope this helps someone :)

Re: The Depression Thing

#166

Post by devdad »

With respect, and as pure anecdote based on myself, "run a mile" is really good advice. I've dealt with depression since puberty and the main thing that helps me is excercise.

Lifting, getting punched with gloves or preparing for a marathon works wonders for me (not said as an opposite opinion than the author, but as a datapoint).

And please, if you're dealing with depression, you need to find out what works for you. Friends and family can help you find your way back, but they can't make the decision. When you decide - you - to take steps for coping with it nothing is impossible.

The author has sound advice on where to start. I'd just like to add that it can take quite some time, and that's ok, because life is long and you'll look back at this period and thank yourself for acting on it.

Re: The Depression Thing

#167

Post by projektir »

pgeorgi wrote: post #106
Nav_Panel wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an almost absurd criticism ("be careful telling people to sleep, people I know who were depressed followed that advice and slept for 12-14 hours every day"). Let's fix it by being more specific, so we don't accidentally cause any more problems: "daily moderate-intensity cardiovascular exercise" (or, if you prefer, "resistance training 3x week"). Or even, "a healthy level of exercise". I agree that therapy is…

> you shouldn't need a therapist to figure this one out. A reasonable amount of exercise is good for pretty much everyone. People with clinical depression aren't those who _can_ easily hit the gym for that dopamine rush. "Some sport is usually not a bad idea" is not the hard part, getting to the point where it can be implemented is. And if that is the problem, and none of the pep talks on hacker news over the last fe…

> People with clinical depression aren't those who _can_ easily hit the gym for that dopamine rush.

This is not accurate, depression is just not clear cut like that. A depressed person can be fully high-functioning from the outside, even...

Quite a few people don't exercise for other reasons (time, aversion), in fact, I'd say those are all much more likely reasons than depression, but may also lead to depression.

Re: The Depression Thing

#168

Post by sizzle »

coffeevradar wrote: post #134
sizzle wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personal anecdote, semen retention has some surprising benefits and make your a more social being. Recommend trying this method to see if it benefits any depressed folks. Disclaimer: I'm not a doc, don't take my word on anything or listen to me.

Is that when you store it in bottles for later?

To put it nicely, it's when you don't release it via manually stimulating your genital nerve endings. This practice is derived from ancient Chinese medicine I believe, may be wrong.

Re: The Depression Thing

#169

Post by InclinedPlane »

ElatedOwl wrote: post #15

I was diagnosed with "major depression" when I was 14, did the medication and therapy thing for a bit but the medication made me a zombie. Therapy helped me learn to cope a little better, but I was never "cured" of my depression. My 20s have been pretty bad, but in the last year and a half I've lost 100+lbs and have been running and lifting. It turns out the common sense advice to depression was really what I needed…

Those three things are good and can go a long way towards helping out, but they are not perfect. Most especially they suffer from a bootstrapping problem. If you're too depressed to take care of yourself by keeping your sleep on schedule, eating right, and exercising regularly you absolutely will not have the energy or motivation to get back into them easily. Additionally, some people have other issues that make those things harder, such as medical or physical reasons they can't exercise, or sleep disorders (which have a high degree of comorbidity with depression and bipolar).

I'd highly suggest that people look at mindfulness based cognitive therapy. That can build the tools that will make it possible to get back on track. It can also make a huge mental difference to bring people from "kinda sad but doing ok because of good sleep/diet/exercise habits" to actually being able to enjoy life.

Re: The Depression Thing

#170

Post by rmetzler »

throwaway5650 wrote: post #147

Throwaway for reasons that will become obvious. Imagine that you met a friend you hadn't seen in years. They seemed really down, and you ask what's up. They say, "My job is to collect tolls in a tollbooth in Alaska. For 9 months a year it's freezing, and the heater breaks every day, and I'm stuck outside wrenching on the thing with one hand while Googling "how to fix a heater" on my phone with the other while I slowl…

I've been in your shoes earlier this year. Or maybe I didn't come even close. I just want to say, I felt like what you describe.

Then I read an article about the microbiome of dirt [0]. In the moment I read this on my smartphone I sat in the grass on a hill and I thought to myself, fuck it, what can go wrong, I'm going to stick my finger in dirt, put it in my mouth and eat a little bit of dirt. And that's what I did.

I don't know if this was what changed my mood, but what I can say, that my mood was changed in less than a week.

All the best to you.

[0] https://qz.com/993258/dirt-has-a-microbiome-and-it-may-doubl...

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