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How a ’50s-Era New York Knife Law Has Landed Thousands in Jail

villagevoice.com

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Re: How a ’50s-Era New York Knife Law Has Landed Thousands in Jail

#161
post #81
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lawyers aren’t the ones who propose the laws, or write them, or vote on them. Professionally, lawyers are the ones who represent people in disputes. Arrogant jackasses like you are what give techies a bad name.

Could you please not include personal attacks in your comments? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

So calling someone an arrogant jackass is bad, but advocating “ I think we should start throwing lawyers in jail for such bullshit laws until you hit one powerful enough and watch the bullshit law suddenly disappear“ is fair discourse?

HN is a disgusting cesspool, and always has been, because mods pretty much say “anything goes” when talking about outgroups (anyone who isn’t a white male engineer) while clamping down on any sort of attempt to identify the groupthink bullshit.

Re: How a ’50s-Era New York Knife Law Has Landed Thousands in Jail

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The courts haven't yet decided whether or not the "bear arms" part of the second amendment means you have a right to carry arms outside your home. Absurd

It wasn't decided that there was a right to bear arms outside of a well-regulated militia until the Heller decision, which is quite recent and the court chose to make a narrow determination based on the circumstances of the case (which is common).

As I understand it, the dispute is over the meaning of 'militia'. At the time, the 'militia' was considered to be any able-bodied male under the age of 40, and under the law's current definition of the militia, any able-bodied person between 17 and 40 is considered to informally be part of the militia (as opposed to the national guard, who are formally part of it)[1]. The question is whether 'militia' means just the national guard or includes the 'irregulars' who would've been expected to fight despite not formally being part of the military.

[1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/246

Re: How a ’50s-Era New York Knife Law Has Landed Thousands in Jail

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article: ““It’s an easy way to make an arrest. And they’re under pressure to make arrests.” A poster on Officer.com, a verified online message board for law enforcement officers, put it bluntly in 2013 when he advised a rookie to be on the lookout for “GKs”: “make sure they have a prior conviction so you can bump it up to that felony!!!” So, there may not be quotas, but it’s pretty clear that there is pressu…

But they have to put pressure on cops to make arrests, because if they don't, cops will only make an arrest when someone pisses them off or does something so bad and so public it's going to make the papers. Speeding tickets are a perfect example. The sergeant has a life outside work - he gets days off, he runs errands, he drives to and from work. And all the while he sees people doing stupid stuff just like the rest…

> And all the while he sees people doing stupid stuff just like the rest of us. So it's hard for him to imagine his officers can drive around for an entire shift and never see someone speeding, running a red light, or making an illegal u-turn.

Then they should stop and cite those violations. No one said that the police should not write tickets for minor misdemeanors. The complaint is the practice of using those misdemeanors as a way to pad their productivity, and by extension their department's budget.

Police departments should be a sunk cost. There shouldn't be pressure to make arrests, as an arrest can only be made when someone breaks the law and is caught. Look at the whole Arpaio mess. Sure, Illegal Immigrants are here illegally, but it's a national problem, not a local problem. We've sat complaining (at least we were as of last year before shit got fucked) that the feds are going after medical marijuana dispensaries in CA despite the fact that locally, those dispensaries are by-and-large complying with local laws. An illegal immigrant in Arizona isn't all that different. They may be breaking a federal law, but they're a productive member of their community. They aren't breaking any local laws, and it's been ruled countless times that local police departments should not be enforcing those laws much like a local patrolman can't really arrest and cite someone for treason. It's above their pay grade. When you do have departments focusing on one kind of violation, like treason or illegal immigration, as Arpaio ended up doing, the department pulls resources from other violations, like rape and statutory rape, that are mostly violent crime with victims that want justice for the pain and suffering they endured by their neighbors. Those are the people that should be arrested, and the fortunate (or unfortunate) reality is that a lawful community will have officers that are not "productive".

Re: How a ’50s-Era New York Knife Law Has Landed Thousands in Jail

#165
post #155
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The last thing the world needs is cops that don't have discretion. Imagine when our AI robot overlords are in LE; the number of citations/arrests will go through the rough since most Americans break a law or regulation on a daily basis.

The "everyone's always breaking laws" trope is a bit tired. It's like saying "most programs crash on a daily basis because computers are soooo fast and there are soooo many crashing opportunities". You going about your daily business will probably not be breaking laws. If you're running a grocery store, however.....

Laws and regulations... Do you ever speed? Do you know how far ahead you're required to signal before making a turn or changing lanes? Is the setback on your house's lot correct for your fence? Is your pet licensed? Did you keep accurate records of all charitable donations on your last tax return?

The list of laws and regulations that are in effect in the US is enormous. Luckily most of them aren't enforced consistently.

Re: How a ’50s-Era New York Knife Law Has Landed Thousands in Jail

#166
post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they have to put pressure on cops to make arrests, because if they don't, cops will only make an arrest when someone pisses them off or does something so bad and so public it's going to make the papers. Speeding tickets are a perfect example. The sergeant has a life outside work - he gets days off, he runs errands, he drives to and from work. And all the while he sees people doing stupid stuff just like the rest…

> And all the while he sees people doing stupid stuff just like the rest of us. So it's hard for him to imagine his officers can drive around for an entire shift and never see someone speeding, running a red light, or making an illegal u-turn. Then they should stop and cite those violations. No one said that the police should not write tickets for minor misdemeanors. The complaint is the practice of using those misde…

>The complaint is the practice of using those misdemeanors as a way to pad their productivity, and by extension their department's budget.

The evidence for that is spotty at best, and you're missing the point, which is cops won't write tickets (or make arrests) at all unless they're pushed to do so.

Let me add another example. Where I live there's a massage parlor every other block or so. Everybody knows these places are giving happy endings. If there are a hundred brothels (let's call them what they are) in the city, it's not unreasonable for the police chief to say to the vice squad "You have the manpower to shut down at least three of these places every month, so if that doesn't happen I'll want to know why." That's perfectly legitimate management.

Re: How a ’50s-Era New York Knife Law Has Landed Thousands in Jail

#167
post #5
post #3

It's the Village Voice, which is a pretty bad source, but I've read most of the article anyway, expecting a definition of 'gravity knife' at some point and now given up.

This is a deeply-researched, well-written exposé on a troubling, ongoing injustice. But you're giving up after two paragraphs, badmouthing the publication, and the author, because they don't start with the glossary? FWIW, "gravity knifes" are defined when the article turns to the legal situation. In making readers wait a bit, the article may actually be trying to recreate the thoughts of these people caught up in the…

> But you're giving up after two paragraphs

No. As other posters have mentioned the definition appears at 3,376 words through. Have you read the article for yourself, or did you just make up 'two paragraphs' to attack others?

It's not a 'well written expose'. It's clickbait hiding the meat of the article 3000 words deep for more ad views at the expense of a working narrative. You could happily title it 'guess what this obscure new york law is' and then made a series of slides hiding the answer on the tenth.

Re: How a ’50s-Era New York Knife Law Has Landed Thousands in Jail

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, law enforcement is both an industry and a market.

What isn't??

I'm much less concerned with that question than whether or not it should be this way. Personally, I'm not given to throwing my hands up with a "capitalism amirite?"
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