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More Americans Are Falling Behind on Student Loans, and Nobody Quite Knows Why

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Re: More Americans Are Falling Behind on Student Loans, and Nobody Quite Knows Why

#161

Post by linkregister »

rconti wrote: post #117
kozikow wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The top captures all the economic growth: http://time.com/money/4371332/income-inequality-recession/ .

This doesn't give me a great feeling for whether they're recapturing losses from the downturn (from which the rich 'suffered' disproportionately due to their heavy involvement in asset markets), or whether that 85% of the gains is in proportion to what they already took home in proportion of total dollars. It could be they're taking home 95% of the income so capturing 85% of the growth is actually relatively low. I j…

The poorest quintile suffered disproportionately, particularly minority workers.

Re: More Americans Are Falling Behind on Student Loans, and Nobody Quite Knows Why

#162

Post by freeflight »

ElEmEnOhP wrote: post #158
StanislavPetrov wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our federal government is $20 trillion dollars in debt. We are trillions more on debt from every level from local to federal. Most of the states are on the verge of bankruptcy, if not bankrupt already (like Illinois). Countless millions who depend on pensions and other promised benefits from states and municipalities are about to be in for a rude surprise. Despite this crushing debt, we continue to spend trillions of…

Correlating government debt (which is primarily owed back to it's citizens) to household debt is extremely disingenuous.

Tho, pointing out how they both are running rampant, ain't that disingenuous, it's merely stating the obvious.

Pretty much the whole world economy is built on debt and creating more of it, that's because there is no such thing as "money" without debt, especially not with the US$ as the de-facto world currency.

In that regard, it's disingenuous to claim the whole problem only boils down to a couple of kids living above their standards, it's way more systemic than that.

Re: More Americans Are Falling Behind on Student Loans, and Nobody Quite Knows Why

#163

Post by rconti »

linkregister wrote: post #161
rconti wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't give me a great feeling for whether they're recapturing losses from the downturn (from which the rich 'suffered' disproportionately due to their heavy involvement in asset markets), or whether that 85% of the gains is in proportion to what they already took home in proportion of total dollars. It could be they're taking home 95% of the income so capturing 85% of the growth is actually relatively low. I j…

The poorest quintile suffered disproportionately, particularly minority workers.

I'm sorry, I meant in absolute dollar terms (which is why I put 'suffered' in quotes for the rich). That's not meant to minimize the fact that the poorest had the most actual suffering. (and, likely, on average, the greatest % decrease in earned income due to unemployment).

Re: More Americans Are Falling Behind on Student Loans, and Nobody Quite Knows Why

#164

Post by tdeck »

1_2__4 wrote: post #108

I hate sounding both old and weird but I cannot shake the feeling that much of the claims of economic health and growth in the US is... if not fake (I’m not totally nuts) but not accurate. My most charitable interpretation if I’m right is that we’re using the wrong metrics (possibly intentionally) that give a distorted view of the economy. But I keep hearing employment is great, productivity is great, stock market is…

I've definitely heard that productivity isn't great, it's been growing very slowly for quite some time:

http://www.npr.org/2017/06/02/531173429/understanding-the-pr...

https://www.bls.gov/opub/btn/volume-6/below-trend-the-us-pro...

Re: More Americans Are Falling Behind on Student Loans, and Nobody Quite Knows Why

#165

Post by morgtheborg »

AutomationTool wrote: post #56

This one is easy. People are buying things that they can't afford. Throwing it into a loan and then partying their way through school. Since that worked out so well, then they do that with their car, house, furniture, cell phones, and car rims. You aren't entitled to 100,000 dollar education. You aren't entitled to go down to Mexico every spring break. you aren't entitled to eat pizza and hit the bar every weekend. Y…

> I have zero sympathy for junior who goes to some 150,000 a year liberal arts college and gets a degree that makes no money or requires another 2-4 years of school.

An 18 year old assured by their parents this is the "right" move deserves sympathy when it all blows up in their face 150k down the road.

My Mother told me she would throw me out of the house if I took a job rather than going to graduate school. She also said all the loans I took out for undergrad that she claimed she'd pay she'd stop paying if I got a job rather than going to grad school.

The reality is some parents are so damn convinced that education is the magical key to a good life they'll go to some pretty intense lengths to get you to sign on the dotted line.

Re: More Americans Are Falling Behind on Student Loans, and Nobody Quite Knows Why

#167

Post by rhino369 »

shmerl wrote: post #110

With constantly rising real estate prices, this is hardly surprising. Rent is crazy. Time to switch to free high education system.

We just need price controls. School expenses are insanely out of control. Handing them a blank check is folly.

Re: More Americans Are Falling Behind on Student Loans, and Nobody Quite Knows Why

#168

Post by tdeck »

shmerl wrote: post #110

With constantly rising real estate prices, this is hardly surprising. Rent is crazy. Time to switch to free high education system.

Real estate prices aren't rising everywhere. The problem is that our economy is increasingly based on knowledge workers, who benefit from clustering together in densely-populated areas with certain cultural amenities, jobs, and opportunities to meet people and share knowledge. That drives a great disparity in both housing costs and opportunities by region.

Re: More Americans Are Falling Behind on Student Loans, and Nobody Quite Knows Why

#169

Post by linkregister »

StanislavPetrov wrote: post #130
1_2__4 wrote: post #108

I hate sounding both old and weird but I cannot shake the feeling that much of the claims of economic health and growth in the US is... if not fake (I’m not totally nuts) but not accurate. My most charitable interpretation if I’m right is that we’re using the wrong metrics (possibly intentionally) that give a distorted view of the economy. But I keep hearing employment is great, productivity is great, stock market is…

>But I keep hearing employment is great, productivity is great, stock market is great The question you have to ask is, who are you hearing this from? The answer is: people with a vested interest in making you believe the economy is doing great, or people fooled into believing this by those with a vested interest. I suggest you closely examine the metrics used by those who claim the "economy is great". First these met…

That is an interesting anecdote, delivered with lots of confidence. However, despite the just-so manner you delivered it, I don't see a compelling argument. For starters, the CPI isn't calculated in an opaque manner; it's explained here: https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/cpi.pdf.

The costs that are increasing for most Americans are housing, healthcare, and education costs. Yet over 40% of American households own their primary residence. Then you can factor in the lack of rent growth away from urban centers, and you see that this metric isn't as pronounced when it comes to the median American. The costs of many goods are falling. Commodity prices are low despite the fact there is a healthy demand for them. It's strange that you're calling out toilet paper. Its price has fallen [1].

The directors of the Federal Reserve, if they had some secret interest in tricking everyone, wouldn't be flatly admitting they consider why inflation isn't hitting targets a "mystery." [2]

The unemployment numbers being released should be viewed with skepticism, and there are plenty of good articles explaining why the main unemployment rate should be viewed in context with the other unemployment metrics, such as U6. (The idea is that there are many people who want to work who aren't counted in the main unemployment statistic.)

Furthermore, certain localities are experiencing extremely high price increases in housing, such as the Bay Area. Anyone in such a locality is going to feel the squeeze. The problem is that these statistics represent the nation, not individual localities.

1. https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/cpi.pdf, page 12; table 2: Household paper products.

2. https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-09-26/yellen-kn...

Re: More Americans Are Falling Behind on Student Loans, and Nobody Quite Knows Why

#170

Post by linkregister »

rconti wrote: post #163
linkregister wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The poorest quintile suffered disproportionately, particularly minority workers.

I'm sorry, I meant in absolute dollar terms (which is why I put 'suffered' in quotes for the rich). That's not meant to minimize the fact that the poorest had the most actual suffering. (and, likely, on average, the greatest % decrease in earned income due to unemployment).

I was speaking in terms of percentages. In absolute terms, it's almost a meaningless comparison because the highest quintile will almost always experience a larger dollar fluctuation.
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