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Bitcoin dropping after BTC China said it is closing

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Re: Bitcoin dropping after BTC China said it is closing

#161

Post by cm2187 »

Nursie wrote: post #103
cm2187 wrote: post #97

Hold on, I thought crypto-currencies were using encryption to ensure that no one can create more currencies like a fiat currency. But we can just clone the currency, let's create bitcoin cash! Or let's agree to change the algorithm! Hold on, I thought crypto-currencies were meant to be immune from government interference. Wait, China cracking down on bitcoin makes its value plunge! There is only one way to learn disc…

To play devil's advocate - >> I thought crypto-currencies were using encryption to ensure that no one can create more currencies like a fiat currency. Well, you can't just create more BTC, but if you fork it, sure, you can create a parallel currency called BCC where everyone who has BTC gets BCC too. The challenge is persuading people that BCC has value. Which apparently happened. And you can conjure up whatever altc…

> Well, you can't just create more BTC, but if you fork it, sure, you can create a parallel currency called BCC where everyone who has BTC gets BCC too. The challenge is persuading people that BCC has value. Which apparently happened.

Until the debate of changing the algorithm is opened again. Following the algorithm is only a convention. Conventions can change.

Re: Bitcoin dropping after BTC China said it is closing

#162

Post by elif »

rothbardrand wrote: post #114
elif wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a security dropped 28% on a 1-month basis, it wouldn't still be up 60% on a 2-month basis. Apples and oranges. IMO, this is an obvious correction from the most intense bull run bitcoin has seen.

Ironically, this is not the most intense bull run bitcoin has seen. It is a strong bull run for recent years, however, but Bitcoin is getting less volatile over time.

Agreed, if you are looking at growth as a percentage it's had some crazy fast doublings in the past. I was talking more in terms of overall volume of fiat-denominated trade, or in terms of dollar value increase over time.

The faster percentage growth periods did not see $600+ swing days.

Re: Bitcoin dropping after BTC China said it is closing

#163

Post by nwah1 »

andrewla wrote: post #157
nwah1 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US federal government financed itself for the 19th century using land sales, tariffs, and little else. Selling land, for USD, and USD only, is certainly one way that it made USD valuable. Property taxes are very much the same kind of thing, as you mention. In effect, it makes landowners into tenants to the extent that the land is taxed. The government, being defined as the entity with sovereignty over a given reg…

Like I said, you can make a historical argument. Though tariffs were usually based on the value of the goods, so my argument applies there, and land sales (as far as I'm aware) were done by auction, so do not represent net demand for dollars. Not to mention that for most of the 19th century we had some form of hybrid metal backing for the currency. But in modern times, ~90% of government revenue [1] is from taxes tha…

The brute power relationships underpinning landownership ultimately distill down to military power, and landownership is determined that way.

No amount of institutional complexity can negate this fact. Land is necessary for all production and for all life. Control of land enables the owner to demand a rent, and to demand it in whatever form the landowner wishes.

That form could be as terrible or as optimal as conceivable, but that choice is ultimately up to the sovereign. None of your traits for optimal money matter by comparison. Those factors will surely enter into the consideration of any wise sovereign currency issuer, but only if they are wise.

The currency that is demanded could be a cryptocurrency, although a sovereign currency issuer would be foolish to ever choose that, and would put them at a strategic disadvantage during war.

Re: Bitcoin dropping after BTC China said it is closing

#164

Post by alexmat »

oldsklgdfth wrote: post #35
dna_polymerase wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Buy coins. 2. Shut the fuck up about "signals" and "trading" 3. Build cool apps around the crypto ecosystem 4. See more and more people using cryptocurrencies 5. profit

What kind of apps can be built in the crypto ecosystem?

I think it will be big for virtual gaming assets: https://spellsofgenesis.com/ and https://www.ageofrust.games/

Re: Bitcoin dropping after BTC China said it is closing

#165

Post by pc2g4d »

Synaesthesia wrote: post #102
korzun wrote: post #70

I talked about this before, and most people instantly wrote this off. The typical response was 'If X bans the cryptocurrency, we will just trade in another country. That's the whole point!'. Can somebody explain what will happen if U.S starts to feel the pressure from Bitcoin and kills it at the point of exchange? Sure, you will still have your Bitcoins, but they will drop in value and become useless. Furthermore, wh…

Yep, I’m fact I’m surprised the US government hasn’t acted yet, but I suppose they don’t yet view it as sognifixant enough to merit a response yet.

But the IRS has already declared Bitcoin a taxable as either income or as a capital asset. See https://turbotax.intuit.com/tax-tools/tax-tips/Taxes-101/Tax...

This legitimizes Bitcoin and allows the US government to benefit from its ongoing use, just as with other assets.

Re: Bitcoin dropping after BTC China said it is closing

#166

Post by nosuchthing »

rothbardrand wrote: post #142
random023987 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The summer of 2015 BTC was around $200, it's now over $3,000- so up 15X in a bit over 2 years. This is failure? As a modern eTulip bubble, it's a "success" for anyone who has made money speculating. As a replacement for fiat money, it's an absolute disaster as a currency. Volatility and high transaction fees have killed any opportunity Bitcoin may have had to gain traction as a way to pay for anything besides drugs…

You can send several million dollars in under a day for about $0.50 right now. IS that "high fees"? Hell if you do it right you can do it in under an hour for under a dollar. Any talk about it being a replacement for fiat money is evading my point. I made the point that it was a plausible good store of value, not currency. Oh, and by the way, there's nothing wrong with using bitcoin to pay for drugs, and this argumen…

If someone actually paid that small of a fee in BTC for several million USD, they would risk far more of their transaction being lost due to volatility during the multi-hour long transaction.

Anyone holding that much BTC, and facilitating that type of transaction will likely be subject to some form of regulatory scrutiny, sooner or later.

Re: Bitcoin dropping after BTC China said it is closing

#167

Post by nosuchthing »

rothbardrand wrote: post #126

Every time bitcoin slips a little, the anti-bitcoin crowd claims victory and it's kinda hilarious. The summer of 2015 BTC was around $200, it's now over $3,000- so up 15X in a bit over 2 years. This is failure? Why is down $500 failure but up 15X in less than 30 months not success? There are about 11 million millionaires in America. There are only ever going to be 21 million bitcoins total. That means, even just amon…

Bitcoin is essentially a database / blockchain service.

Why would anyone want to use Bitcoin versus any of the newer, faster, more feature advanced alternative crypto coins like Monereo, Litecoin, Ethereum?

Re: Bitcoin dropping after BTC China said it is closing

#168

Post by thephyber »

drez wrote: post #154

What I don't understand is that bitcoin is always referenced in value to USD, but there isn't enough fluid USD in the exchanges to match what the bitcoin network is theoretically worth. How do they decide what Bitcoin is worth, if the money that it's worth isn't actually around? Also what happens when a big holder of BTC decides to cash out? Wouldn't it become similar to a typical bank run, collapsing the exchanges (…

> Wouldn't it become similar to a typical bank run

Yes and no.

User behavior drives the market price, certainly. But "bank runs" are only bad because of fractional reserve.

When the bank essentially loans out 80-95% of their assets in order to create more loans/credit (thereby creating $4-19 in new credit for every $1 in reserves), the run can empty reserves and there is pressure for the bank to call in loan repayments early.

BitCoin exchanges (in their core exchange role) don't create credit. They simply convert one currency into another. If an exchange also lends (so users can buy cryptocurrency "on margin"), it is acting in another role, one which is susceptible to "a run no the bank".

Re: Bitcoin dropping after BTC China said it is closing

#169

Post by thephyber »

gourou wrote: post #107
artofcode wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They didn't ban 'all cryptocurrencies'. They banned ICO's instead, and (afaik) it's a temporary ban until proper regulations are in place.

You're right. However, I doubt they'll add proper regulations for hundreds of cryptocurrencies. What makes you think they will?

> I doubt they'll add proper regulations for hundreds of cryptocurrencies

Why do you think they have to do it in a "whack a mole" type of way?

It's not terribly difficult for one government to establish "best practices" and then ban all cryptocurrencies and/or ICOs that don't strictly adhere to it.

Re: Bitcoin dropping after BTC China said it is closing

#170

Post by thephyber »

thisisit wrote: post #39
luxpir wrote: post #4

Take note, high-risk investors: now is a good time to buy.

I remember the last time something China related happened in 2013 or something. I forgot the exact news but it sent BTC tumbling back to $200-300 in next couple of years before it came back up. If you believe in China's influence that much, then better wait it out. There should be much better price to be had.

> I remember the last time something China related happened in 2013 or something.

Are you conveniently forgetting the first few weeks of this year? They changed their policies towards cryptocurrencies in a way that wasn't quite clear (rumors were that "China is banning cryptocurrencies!" and "Chinese exchanges are closing!"). The reality of the regulatory change was tiny in comparison to the rumors, and many people profited from the short term rumor noise.

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