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We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

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Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#161

Post by agumonkey »

peterwwillis wrote: post #128
agumonkey wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What barefoot forces you is to restart that process at very basic level. Your feet are sensitive, if you stomp on the ground as you do with shoes (especially amortizing running shoes) you'll quickly see the problem. It makes your movement way more subtle, soft, supple and also redistributes effort on the whole limb chain.

Barefoot running is a lame fad for people who think there's secret value in the obscurity of old things. Modern societies have been running with various foot coverings (usually sandals) for thousands of years. So there's nothing wrong with running with shoes. If barefoot running is all about moving differently, you don't need to be barefoot to do that. Do Thai boxing conditioning for a few months. Learn to jump in al…

I agree partially, but I stand on my point. Having no shoes will change how you use your legs and feet. Also tech and market may influence people into thinking they need cushion to run without injuries but they have incentives to do so.

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#162

Post by Sharlin »

simonswords82 wrote: post #146
johnny99 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've run consistently for the past 30 years, most often in the spirit of the article: long, slow, meditative runs. What my cross country coach in high school called Long Slow Distance ("limber up gentlemen, we'll be doing LSD today!"). Tried a fitbit for a while, found that reducing it to numbers took the joy out of it. I'm back to where I started: no accelerometers or earphones, outdoors, ideally on a trail. I don't…

Are you me?!? I too went all in on the numbers, heart rate monitor, detailed running plans, 5k competitive park runs every weekend. I thought I should run at least x times a week or I'm doing it wrong. Holy cow, did it suck the enjoyment out of it. Having MapMyRun shout in my ear every kilometer meant I couldn't just zone out and enjoy the run. Then I fell down some stairs at a tube station in London and popped my pa…

Is there any human endeavor where going super technical, analytic, and by-the-numbers on it sooner or later robs all joy of it?

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#163

Post by danieltillett »

thoughtexprmnt wrote: post #103

There are a lot of reasons to run, but if general fitness is the goal, I've found that sprinting, and in particular uphill sprinting, is the most effective and time-efficient.

If you really want to go for efficiency sprints on an exercise bike are about as time efficient as you can get. 30 seconds flat out, 30 seconds slow x5 and you are 90% of the way there. The stress on your joints is way less than running too.

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#164

Post by chunk_manbeef »

rosser wrote: post #9

The Fine Article doesn't really go into how we're doing it wrong, beyond a passing mention of barefoot running, and some dissing of treadmills (which is hyperbolic and orthogonal to reality; you can run "correctly" or "badly" on a treadmill or on the street or trail). I used to run a bit. Did an informal "couch to 5k" over a couple of months, before I'd even discovered that was a thing. The single most effective thin…

+1

I am 53 and started running about 5 years ago. I started running using traditional running shoes, but after 3 months I almost gave up, due to my right knee (that had undergone ACL replacement surgery) constantly being sore.

Then I switched to Vibram's Five Fingers. I have now been running over 5 years wearing Vibram's and I have no knee pain and no major injuries. If you would like more info on barefoot running, the book "Born to Run" is a good read.

Try out a pair of Vibrams, you will never go back!

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#165

Post by Tade0 »

maxmcorp wrote: post #139
wyclif wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect that the cause of that is running on pavement. Doing that for decades is hard on the knees and joints. I wonder if there would be more people in the over-50 age group still running if they had spent their younger years running on grass or sand. I don't have any evidence that they would, but it's an interesting question.

But nature is hardly better for running than pavement. Stones, grass, roots, mud etc. There are a lot more ways to get injuries in nature than on a gravel path.

I guess people just don't take into account the fact that our ancestors usually didn't live to their 50s, so they couldn't experience most of the problems that nowadays middle-aged runners do.

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#166

Post by luxpir »

nthcolumn wrote: post #53
rosser wrote: post #9

The Fine Article doesn't really go into how we're doing it wrong, beyond a passing mention of barefoot running, and some dissing of treadmills (which is hyperbolic and orthogonal to reality; you can run "correctly" or "badly" on a treadmill or on the street or trail). I used to run a bit. Did an informal "couch to 5k" over a couple of months, before I'd even discovered that was a thing. The single most effective thin…

Ultra-long distance dudes from Mexico the Tarahumara allegedly run like this. I also heard a story about some guy in Aussie who ran like that - won some crazy long distance race too, smashing the record. It is true that a man will beat a horse in a race if the man is allowed to pick the distance. How about that for evolution? The ultimate persistence hunter.

The man might still win even if the horse is allowed to pick the distance...

Seriously though, marathon runners since ancient times have worn flat, unpadded sandals/footwear. Slight protection from stones, otherwise allowing the body to run naturally.

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#167

Post by simonswords82 »

Sharlin wrote: post #162
simonswords82 wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you me?!? I too went all in on the numbers, heart rate monitor, detailed running plans, 5k competitive park runs every weekend. I thought I should run at least x times a week or I'm doing it wrong. Holy cow, did it suck the enjoyment out of it. Having MapMyRun shout in my ear every kilometer meant I couldn't just zone out and enjoy the run. Then I fell down some stairs at a tube station in London and popped my pa…

Is there any human endeavor where going super technical, analytic, and by-the-numbers on it sooner or later robs all joy of it?

I guess it's related to personality types.

Some people simply will not undertake an activity they wish to improve upon (exercise, coding, playing an instrument etc) without objective numbers guiding them and relaying their progress.

Others, like myself and perhaps OP, are happy enough to undertake an activity and be less scientific about their performance so long as they "feel" they are making progress and more importantly enjoy the activity.

To add to my previous post. I do try to strike a balance. For example the vast majority of the time I don't measure myself, but every now and then for curiosity I'll strap on a heart rate monitor and mobile app like MayMyRun to see how I'm performing versus a few months ago. I still don't have the voice shouting progress in my headphones, and I still run without music, but it's interesting to see the results and a nice outcome if they have improved.

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#168

Post by StevePerkins »

>> "You are not your typical jogger, are you? In fact, you hate the term."

> "The fact is, I am a jogger, but it has connotations of pastel tracksuits and sweatbands from the 1980s and sort of stinks of Thatcherism and Reaganomics, and all that individualism. Runner just sounds cooler, doesn’t it?"

I find this portion of the interview remarkable at a meta level.

1) Associating the word "jogger" with conservative politics and individualist philosophy is absolutely bizarre to me. Why? Because it happened to grow popular during the 1980's? Does that mean that the x86 computer revolution has conservative connotations also? I thought that JFK popularized jogging back in the 60's, anyway. I'm so confused here.

2) Feeling the need to rename things in order to avoid connotations, even if the renaming makes little sense, is a curious impulse. The word "jogging" has some distinct layers of meaning, that are lost when you simply collapse it into "running". If you DO somehow negatively link jogging to Ronald Reagan, then wouldn't it be better to try and coin a new term?

3) I find this sort of exchange more and more common on the Internet these days. Discussing jogging, or what one ate for breakfast that morning... and seamlessly segueing in and out of politics or culture war banter. Not so long ago, that would be considered awkward and jarring (quite frankly, it would still be considered awkward and jarring if the subject had expressed a pro-Reagan view instead). Until quite recently, basic social norms would have one tiptoe into such things more gingerly. An interesting shift.

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#169

Post by joekrill »

rosser wrote: post #9

The Fine Article doesn't really go into how we're doing it wrong, beyond a passing mention of barefoot running, and some dissing of treadmills (which is hyperbolic and orthogonal to reality; you can run "correctly" or "badly" on a treadmill or on the street or trail). I used to run a bit. Did an informal "couch to 5k" over a couple of months, before I'd even discovered that was a thing. The single most effective thin…

No offense to you personally, but it's kind of disconcerting that this is the top comment. You've outright admitted to only having "used to run a bit" -- and not very much, at that. But then go on to promote barefoot running as if you're somehow a fully qualified expert who knows enough to talk on the matter and declare barefoot running is _clearly_ the answer.

I'm not saying you're wrong or right. This shoed/barefoot discussion has been inflaming the running community for decades. But there's really no substantial evidence that barefoot running is better.

Anyway, I just think the way this was presented -- basically as fact -- is dangerous. And given that it's the top comment with very little pushback in the comments is kind of scary.

Re: We Evolved to Run But We're Doing It Wrong

#170

Post by b3b0p »

rb808 wrote: post #85
sndean wrote: post #72

> he calls treadmills the "junk food of exercise. > he believes running barefoot is more natural—and less likely to result in injury. This has always bothered me, and, even on HN, it still bothers me. Too many experts. I ran track and XC (HS, DIII, then DI for a season), did 100+ miles/week, won a half marathon, etc. Reasonably successful without any injuries, over ~15 years. Even I would get constant advice from eve…

Wait until you get into your 40's and 50's, that's often when lots of bad habits start to cause problems.

Very much agree with the parent comment here.

My dad was in his mid 40's. Was doing multiple marathons and triathlons per year, including Iron Man. Two-a-day's training. Getting up at 4 or 5 AM, training, then training after work.

Same shoes the entire time. Asic Gel Lyte III. He even made sure to get the same color every time. He did try some Air Max 1, Air Max 180 when they first came out, but always complained about them not fitting right.

He seems alright still. He is 70.

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