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Tesla Model 3 First Drive Review

motortrend.com

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Re: Tesla Model 3 First Drive Review

#161

Post by robterrell »

kumarvvr wrote: post #117
TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I've heard Telsa vehicles rare in for warranty repairs at a higher rate than most other new vehicles. "The main problem areas involved the drivetrain, power equipment, charging equipment, giant iPad-like center console, and body and sunroof squeaks, rattles, and leaks." The most common problems involve replacement of the electric motors, warped brake rotors, door handles that fail to slide out as a driver a…

Electric motors are one of the most rugged pieces of equipment in the world. Coming from a state run engineering enterprise, where every motor is purchased from the lowest bidder, even the worst quality motors run for decades before even showing signs of any trouble, including mechanical. For a car like the Tesla, it's hard to believe that the motor will give any sort of trouble. Also, most electric motors, even thos…

It may be hard to believe, but read the forums (especially of other cars with Tesla drivetrains, like the Mercedes-Benz EV or the Toyota RAV 4 EV) and you'll see many tales of woe regarding the motors. Tesla makes their motors in-house, so it's not surprising they've been working out the kinks for years, given their sales volume (until recently).

Re: Tesla Model 3 First Drive Review

#163

Post by zwily »

mtgx wrote: post #63

> Tesla’s trying to change the vocabulary we’re using to describe it, from “kilowatt-hours” to “range.” I understand why they did it -- Tesla's cars tend to be the most efficient EVs around, often by significant margins compared to competitors. But for someone who was hoping battery size competition would be the new megapixel race, this is quite disappointing to hear. I suppose "range" could be used in the same way,…

Tesla does advertise the EPA range.

Re: Tesla Model 3 First Drive Review

#164

Post by zwily »

DennisP wrote: post #141
davidgould wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tesla's cars tend to be the most efficient EVs around, often by significant margins compared to competitors. Well, yes and no. Teslas have very low Cd, so are aerodynamically efficient for their size, but they use AC induction motors which are less efficient then the PM DC motors in most other EVs. Compared to the Bolt or the Hyundai Ioniq the Teslas are less efficient at lower speeds.

Now I'm curious, what is the advantage of AC induction motors?

It's a good question: https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/58236/why-do...

Re: Tesla Model 3 First Drive Review

#165

Post by mikeash »

tetraodonpuffer wrote: post #115
sxates wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, a base Model S doesn't have all the autopilot stuff and upgrade sound and everything else. So to compare equivalent equipment packages, that Model S is a lot more than $9k more.

doesn't the model S though also give you free access to superchargers (unlike the model 3 where you have to pay)? This should factor in the comparison if you live close to one and/or plan a lot of cross country trips where they are available

The value of free Supercharging is fairly small for most people. If you drive 12,000 miles/year and 25% of your driving is Supercharged, you'll end up paying something like $100/year in Supercharger fees for a Model 3.

Re: Tesla Model 3 First Drive Review

#166

Post by mikeash »

_ph_ wrote: post #61
drawnwren wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what world is a sub 6s 0-60 sporty? The WRX gets 4.6, and I'd consider that the edge of sporty (also cheaper than the 3).

Maybe I am old, but the Model 3 gets 0-60 in about the same time the Porsche 911 used to. I would consider everything less than 8s "sporty". That does not mean, it is a race car, just something with quick performance. The fact that the full power is always instantly available without shifting or pressure by the turbocharger building up, closes the gap further.

The Tesla will probably feel a lot quicker even with similar 0-60 times because the EV drivetrain is so much more responsive.

I have a Model S 85, with a 0-60 time similar to what Tesla is claiming for the Model 3. A couple of months ago I had a Cadillac ATS rental which also has a similar 0-60 time. It was a decent car overall, but it felt like an absolute snail compared to my S. Floor the accelerator in the S and you go. Floor it in the ATS and Stuff begins to Happen, and Eventually the car begins to Move. I assume they have similar numbers because the ATS makes up for it with better acceleration as you get closer to 60, but most acceleration I do isn't a pure 0-60 run, but 0-30, or 10-40, or whatever.

Re: Tesla Model 3 First Drive Review

#167

Post by [deleted] »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #133
laydn wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Center console indicators are quite common. One advantage is that, the indicators are never blocked when you are in a turn. With your traditional instrument cluster placement, the steering wheel blocks the indicators. Cars with instruments in the center dashboard: Mini Cooper: http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/2010-mini-cooper-hardtop-2-do... Toyota Yaris: https://cars.usnews.com/static/images/Auto/izmo/306771/2009_...…

Mini Cooper: There is a speedometer directly behind steering wheel, in a smaller secondary instrument panel, as shown in the picture. Toyota Yaris: Not shown in that picture is the Head Up Display projected onto the windscreen, even closer to the driver's line of sight. I drove a Yaris for a few days a while back, and the HUD is good - not distracting there's and no need to turn your head, which would be dangerous. C…

[deleted]

Re: Tesla Model 3 First Drive Review

#168

Post by mikeash »

mtgx wrote: post #63

> Tesla’s trying to change the vocabulary we’re using to describe it, from “kilowatt-hours” to “range.” I understand why they did it -- Tesla's cars tend to be the most efficient EVs around, often by significant margins compared to competitors. But for someone who was hoping battery size competition would be the new megapixel race, this is quite disappointing to hear. I suppose "range" could be used in the same way,…

Teslas are just about the least efficient EVs you can buy today. See: https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/PowerSearch.do?action=noform...

The only thing worse than the Teslas are the Mercedes B250E and BYD e6.

This should be no surprise. Teslas are big, heavy, spacious cars, whereas other EVs tend to be small. Efficiency isn't a priority, and there's no reason to expect a 4,500lb Model S to be as efficient as a 3,300lb LEAF.

Tesla doesn't fudge range. They list EPA range in the US (and NEDC range in European countries). I think they may be required to.

Re: Tesla Model 3 First Drive Review

#169

Post by foobarge »

gr2020 wrote: post #159
foobarge wrote: post #118

Nice but still not what I need. I need a long range electric car whose interior I won't be afraid to damage from time to time. I need something that moves me, my family and my stuff (skis, bikes, windsurf + sails, mountaineering gears, etc..) to where I need to be, not something for showing-off and asserting status. The large screen in the middle of the car is a non complete non-starter - lots of the stuff I carry in…

Not cheap, nor plastic, but it sounds like the Bollinger B1 is calling your name: https://www.theverge.com/transportation/2017/7/27/16052118/b...

Excellent, thanks for sharing!

"THE B1 IS SO ANTI-TECH IT HAS AN ANALOG BATTERY LEVEL INDICATOR ON THE DASH"

LOL.

Re: Tesla Model 3 First Drive Review

#170

Post by mikeash »

davidgould wrote: post #88
mtgx wrote: post #63

> Tesla’s trying to change the vocabulary we’re using to describe it, from “kilowatt-hours” to “range.” I understand why they did it -- Tesla's cars tend to be the most efficient EVs around, often by significant margins compared to competitors. But for someone who was hoping battery size competition would be the new megapixel race, this is quite disappointing to hear. I suppose "range" could be used in the same way,…

> Tesla's cars tend to be the most efficient EVs around, often by significant margins compared to competitors. Well, yes and no. Teslas have very low Cd, so are aerodynamically efficient for their size, but they use AC induction motors which are less efficient then the PM DC motors in most other EVs. Compared to the Bolt or the Hyundai Ioniq the Teslas are less efficient at lower speeds.

The efficiency difference is pretty small, something like 2%. The main reason Teslas are less efficient is that they're big and heavy.
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