Earlier quoted context omitted.
The point is that it creates a specific type of environment - which is exclusive. It attracts a specific kind of person (competitive, usually male). There's nothing wrong with offering it, per se. But you should make sure it's not the only thing you offer. And you need to make sure it's not the place where all the decisions get made. That is where the problem comes from. You'll be excluded from the "inner circle" unl…
I think because the US is largely a car-oriented society so it's harder to meet new people. To compensate we find socialization more with those at work.
Tech is the best industry for women
161–170 of 193 posts
Re: Tech is the best industry for women
#162I think tech represents a good implementation of a meritocracy. You are welcomed to be weird and yourself, as long as you get your work done. Think about your coworkers-- you've got some weird ones. Dyed hair? Check. Burlesque dancing? Check. Gender non-conforming? Check. Goes to Burning Man? Check, check, self-check. Any of these things could get you fired from teaching kindergarten. Let's keep tech inclusive and ac…
Not here I don't. Every tech company I've worked in mostly had the same types of people there as everywhere else. I've never seen a single person with dyed hair, nor anyone who goes to Burning Man, is gender non conforming or has unusual hobbies like burlesque dancing.
Same with the companies I've interviewed at, applied for or toured around. I guess they'd skew younger than they would in other industries (though I haven't seen much of a difference on that front), but no one here is your hipster college student stereotype.
Still, maybe it's different over in Silicon Valley compared to London.
Re: Tech is the best industry for women
#163Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think you just helped further the posters first statement.
lol yes, it's comments like this which are a perfect example of why tech is not an inclusive community.
If someone holds well reasoned and logical beliefs for hating the gay-hater that person can at least suss out some amount of logic.
I am not saying that all homophic are stupid or that all haters of the homophobic are smart, but one of these uses evidence and logic and that correlates at loosely with intelligence.
Re: Tech is the best industry for women
#164Earlier quoted context omitted.
Of course the other post's experience was horrible. And I know this is a core tenant of not understanding the situation, but it seemed like some of it was purely in jest, and if that poster was a little more... fun? then maybe the post wouldn't exist.
I wrote this in another comment somewhere, but do you think her coworkers were only like this in casual conversations and social situations, and treated her as a complete equal professionally? Or do you think their attitudes might have affected how they viewed her work, what she was assigned, her opportunities for advancement, etc. It doesn't matter how "fun" you are when people who have power over you are doing this…
The unequal thing is interesting though.
Do you think it's the first time any of them made a joke about their junk to co-workers? Or jokingly asked about call girls to each other?
Changing their behavior, for one person, would be special treatment. And not only that, pandering. By speaking that way, they _were_ treating her as equal.
I think that point is lost in this.
Re: Tech is the best industry for women
#165Earlier quoted context omitted.
I wrote this in another comment somewhere, but do you think her coworkers were only like this in casual conversations and social situations, and treated her as a complete equal professionally? Or do you think their attitudes might have affected how they viewed her work, what she was assigned, her opportunities for advancement, etc. It doesn't matter how "fun" you are when people who have power over you are doing this…
Obviously if her work was being assigned differently, or having her work heavily scrutinized because of it, then they're in the wrong. The unequal thing is interesting though. Do you think it's the first time any of them made a joke about their junk to co-workers? Or jokingly asked about call girls to each other? Changing their behavior, for one person, would be special treatment. And not only that, pandering. By spe…
Should I have changed my behavior just for this guy? Isn't that pandering, shouldn't he have to adjust to my behavior if everyone else is ok with it?
No, I should have taken into account the obvious fact that my actions would hurt him, even though nobody else minds. Not caring about that makes me an asshole.
In the case of the blog post, it should be abundantly obvious that someone who posts an article about sexism in the work place will not think "we don't give a fuck" and "just get over yourself" is funny. Not caring about that makes them assholes, and the fact that they didn't respect her at all in this scenario means they probably don't respect her in general.
And while "Move over, I need room for my big dick" is dumb in any context, it is common sense that it might be received especially poorly by a woman you don't know in an overwhelmingly male-dominated environment, and not caring about that is grossly disrespectful.
Treating people equally is not the same as treating them as equals. And treating people equally is not something to aspire to; it's trivially easy to come up with scenarios where equal treatment produces unequal results.
Re: Tech is the best industry for women
#166Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, I don't get this "I'll criticize everything that I think mainly men enjoy!" mentality. I couple interviewees with this idea in their mind criticized a company I was working at a couple years ago, and I was left scratching my head. As a guy, I didn't use the foosball table or the ping pong table all that much. They said it was a "brogrammer" thing, but I don't understand how other people wanting to compete on th…
The point is that it creates a specific type of environment - which is exclusive. It attracts a specific kind of person (competitive, usually male). There's nothing wrong with offering it, per se. But you should make sure it's not the only thing you offer. And you need to make sure it's not the place where all the decisions get made. That is where the problem comes from. You'll be excluded from the "inner circle" unl…
This was not the case. Some women did participate, but the ones who did not participate did not miss it. They went home or somewhere else because they have the wisdom of work-life balance.
> The biggest thing is, it's unnecessary. As a European, the US attitude of having entertainment at work continues to puzzle me. I go to work, I put in 8 hours of work, I go home and have fun. Why we need foosball tables (or reading groups, or wine tasting clubs, or whatever) is beyond me.
The men I've seen (in my case in Canada, not the U.S. [but probably similar]) tend to have less work-life balance. Since they spend most of their time at work, they more likely want to have closer relationships with their colleagues. Basically everyone I spend any amount of free time with was/is either a colleague, a client, or somebody I split rent with. Here in Toronto, it seems pretty rare to really meet anyone outside of family or work. Hobby clubs/classes are okay, but most people don't really go to many of them. If you live downtown, you probably don't know the names of your neighbours. You might never have even said a word to them.
Cities like mine, and I suspect areas in Si Valley, tend to encourage loneliness. Businesses are trying to build a social group to satisfy that need, and hopefully through that improve performance, reduce the cost of HR, reduce employee turnover, and reduce total compensation. This is what my office managers and HR folks have told me. In the U.S. I think it's exacerbated a bit by the relative low density of most cities, which makes it so that you have to drive to see people.
They offer company soda for the same sorts of reasons: Sugar intake increases blood glucose, which improves brain function (especially when stimulated with the company coffee), and it tends to keep employees sitting in their desks, where they are more likely to be doing work.
Re: Tech is the best industry for women
#167Re: Tech is the best industry for women
#168Earlier quoted context omitted.
In the original article, the author's claim was "the most welcoming industry I’ve seen" while your founder describes it as "Claiming the whole industry is welcoming is in invalidating their experience" and proceeds to argue against that. Unfortunately, this is the very definition of a straw man.
to be fair, they probably didn't read the original post
Re: Tech is the best industry for women
#169Pieces like this sometimes make me wonder if sexism is not actually more rampant in tech, men in tech are just more open to self-criticism and accepting that something is wrong with themselves and their industry. All the things you hear about in tech, you hear about elsewhere. But the men in them don't seem to compete with each other over who can be the most self deprecating and sympathetic with those calling them ou…
I've never seen a shred of evidence that there's any sexism in tech. Most (if not all) articles claiming there is are usually pieces written by SJW types who go out of their way to look for victims and oppressors because that's what they've been trained to do.
Re: Tech is the best industry for women
#170When it comes to some of these jobs, there seems to be a trope that the job market should be about "equal representation" which is complete nonsense but it is great for women because big companies want to present themselves as "respecting equality" and hence women are more likely to be hired in those positions than equally qualified men. So, yes, it is definitely very lucrative for women to pursue a career in tech in…
nobody cares about more men in elementary schools and nursing because its about equal representation in power and influence that comes with wealth.