An interesting comment validated here, from 7 years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1533033
People are trying to resolve this problem in a similar way the bitcoin itself functions: https://github.com/bitsquare/bitsquare
BTC-e and its founder charged in 21-count indictment over hack of Mt. Gox
161–170 of 256 posts
Re: BTC-e and its founder charged in 21-count indictment over hack of Mt. Gox
#162So, does that mean I can't get the BTC I deposited in BTC-e ages ago? I somehow didn't even know any of this was going down. (I have no idea how much it was...maybe a quarter of a coin, which is a reasonable amount of money today.)
Some rumors that the admin of the servers was not arrested, but took the site down, to reconsider security and relocate servers, before starting up again.
That's why BTC-e does not show a giant FBI logo with a notice.
Re: BTC-e and its founder charged in 21-count indictment over hack of Mt. Gox
#163Earlier quoted context omitted.
Right. And cars manufacturers assist kidnappers and bank robbers escapes. And cell phones can be used as remote detonators. And end-to-end cryptography... no, this is an abomination , you shouldn't even think of it unless you willingly submit your private keys to the appropriate government agency for safe escrow to aid lawful investigations! (I would have put /s here, but all these lines will be used at face value so…
Money laundering is knowingly assisting criminal activities. You're actively hiding where the money comes from, exactly because you know it comes from illegal sources. (If the source were legal but embarrassing, all you'd need is standard bank privacy, not active laundering.) The car-related analogy isn't a car manufacturer. It isn't even an anonymous, stealth rental car service (although plenty of crimes could benef…
Like I said before, not everything that is illegal is wrong. In Germany, homeschooling is illegal. In Russia, telling teenagers that some people are gay and that's OK is illegal. The US law is a hodgepodge of contradicting legal statements which are different in different states, and many things can be counted as legal or illegal based on your wealth, political connections, race, or just luck.
Law is not a bright shiny source of truth from outer heaven, it is a sketchy framework of hacks and patches written in haste to aid people in resolving their conflicts.
Re: BTC-e and its founder charged in 21-count indictment over hack of Mt. Gox
#164The question for me is: why US? He is a Russian citizen, the company is based in Bulgaria, servers in Russia, legal HQ in Cyprus and all the services operated from Seychelles - arrested in Greece. The MtGox hack affected a Japanese company. I'm not debating the nature of the crimes, etc - I am just wondering, when does it become a US case? I can get the "there were US customers" - but why not Europe? Or Japan? Or Rus…
Look at the actual charges in the indictment. All the BTC-e stuff is not what he's charged with. He's charged with transferring stolen Mt Gox Bitcoins to Tradehill, a San Francisco based exchange (now defunct). That's the US connection that will seal his extradition. They also allege that BTC-e is (at least partially) hosted in the US and does business with many US companies, which is likely true. But that's not what…
> Subsequently I expect to see Monero delisted from any exchange that follows KYC after some pressure from law enforcement.
This won't happen. KYC will still remain, but privacy is an important feature that many legitimate businesses want in crypto for completely legal and good reasons. Many of the businesses in the EEA are interested in Ethereum gaining privacy features, and Ethereum plans to add zkSNARKS. At that point it's not just Monereo, ZCash, etc that the exchanges would have to ban but Ethereum as well. It'll be a losing battle for law enforcement.
Re: BTC-e and its founder charged in 21-count indictment over hack of Mt. Gox
#165The question for me is: why US? He is a Russian citizen, the company is based in Bulgaria, servers in Russia, legal HQ in Cyprus and all the services operated from Seychelles - arrested in Greece. The MtGox hack affected a Japanese company. I'm not debating the nature of the crimes, etc - I am just wondering, when does it become a US case? I can get the "there were US customers" - but why not Europe? Or Japan? Or Rus…
Look at the actual charges in the indictment. All the BTC-e stuff is not what he's charged with. He's charged with transferring stolen Mt Gox Bitcoins to Tradehill, a San Francisco based exchange (now defunct). That's the US connection that will seal his extradition. They also allege that BTC-e is (at least partially) hosted in the US and does business with many US companies, which is likely true. But that's not what…
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Re: BTC-e and its founder charged in 21-count indictment over hack of Mt. Gox
#166Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah my favourite pharmacy just closed - pretty sure it was a money laundering op. Huge warehouse, fully staffed, inventory from pharmacy to electronics, hardware to perishable goods (but just random retail packages). In a couple years I've never seen more than 1 other car in the 50-space parking lot. Amazing service. And of course there's no victims in money laundering. It's a victimless crime that has the sole purp…
Money laundering is almost certainly tax evasion. On that regard, it is effectively a crime.
Can you explain this? If someone has a bundle of cash from illegally selling drugs, then they give it to their store front to "launder" as retail income, aren't they now paying tax they wouldn't otherwise pay?
Re: BTC-e and its founder charged in 21-count indictment over hack of Mt. Gox
#167Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've answered this elsewhere but basically money laundering is responsible for keeping the wheels turning in a lot of real criminal activities like human trafficing and illegal weapons trade.
Not to go down the rabbit hole with this line of reasoning, because I would always argue that money laundering is tax evasion, but the fact that criminal activities is incidental to another activity, doesnt make the other one criminal. As another user said, cars and guns are used for robberies, if you banned them, then you would also be curbing criminal activity.
Buying a car from a guy you know or highly suspect used the car to rob a bank and is selling it to you for the express purpose of hiding what car was used in the bank robbery sounds like a crime (or at least something that would land you in hot water).
Buying a gun from a guy that you know or highly suspect used the gun to kill a guy and is selling you the gun for the express purpose of hiding what gun was used in the murder sounds the same.
^Those are closer to what money laundering is.
Re: BTC-e and its founder charged in 21-count indictment over hack of Mt. Gox
#168Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah my favourite pharmacy just closed - pretty sure it was a money laundering op. Huge warehouse, fully staffed, inventory from pharmacy to electronics, hardware to perishable goods (but just random retail packages). In a couple years I've never seen more than 1 other car in the 50-space parking lot. Amazing service. And of course there's no victims in money laundering. It's a victimless crime that has the sole purp…
And of course there's no victims in money laundering. It's a victimless crime that has the sole purpose of helping prosecutors when they aren't able to find a real crime. While the laundry operation is victimless it often directly assists crimes that have very real crimes: Trafficking Drug abusers [0] Illegal weapons trade [1] [0]: Esp. as since it is currently illegal they suffer a lot as getting their drugs means d…
That might be totally true, but money laundering as a crime itself is just a cover for prosecutors inability to find the real crimes. It's about as morally defensible as asset seizures.
Re: BTC-e and its founder charged in 21-count indictment over hack of Mt. Gox
#169Earlier quoted context omitted.
Right. And cars manufacturers assist kidnappers and bank robbers escapes. And cell phones can be used as remote detonators. And end-to-end cryptography... no, this is an abomination , you shouldn't even think of it unless you willingly submit your private keys to the appropriate government agency for safe escrow to aid lawful investigations! (I would have put /s here, but all these lines will be used at face value so…
And cars manufacturers assist kidnappers and bank robbers escapes. No. Because there never is any planning between the manufacturer and the bank robbers. Remember: we are talking about money laundering operations here, not accidentally receiving stolen goods without knowing. Can these use be abused? Yes. Very much. Should they still exist? Yes.
Yes. Two questions are: did the BTC-e founder knew that he is helping to legalize proceeds for MtGox hack? Or some general hack? Or just he didn't make due diligence on the source of money and just agreed to help for a fee? And second — what authority the US government has in running the trial? Why the case is not tried in Japanese or Russian or Cyprus courts?
Re: BTC-e and its founder charged in 21-count indictment over hack of Mt. Gox
#170The question for me is: why US? He is a Russian citizen, the company is based in Bulgaria, servers in Russia, legal HQ in Cyprus and all the services operated from Seychelles - arrested in Greece. The MtGox hack affected a Japanese company. I'm not debating the nature of the crimes, etc - I am just wondering, when does it become a US case? I can get the "there were US customers" - but why not Europe? Or Japan? Or Rus…
In many countries, it is illegal for lawyers to charge a percentage of the obtained damages. But in the US, a lawyer can propose: "I'll help you suing this bastard for free if I get half of the awarded damages." This incentivizes US lawyers to be more confrontational and to seek higher damages than anywhere else. Edit, found this: "FinCEN today assessed a $110 million civil money penalty against BTC-e for willfully v…
It's not clear what exactly the outcome is in this case, but in many civil cases the US Treasury uses the penalties to repay the original injured parties. It generally doesn't cover all their losses.