Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why Good People Leave Large Tech Companies

thinkgrowth.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 265 posts

Re: Why Good People Leave Large Tech Companies

#161

Post by lovich »

RealityNow wrote: post #136
sitharus wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the feedback and counter arguments that are often lacking, and being unwilling to admit the decision was wrong. I've been in this situation a few times and it's very hard to push back on a decision that's been 'made' even if it's not appropriate for the team you're on.

Our CEO has flat out told us that it's incredibly hard for him to get honest feedback from anyone (except for maybe the board and investors), and another executive echoed this. Nobody wants to question the almighty CEO to his face. Nothing against the CEO. He's an extremely friendly and approachable person. Most people just fear questioning authority and power, and the CEO in a modern day corporation is revered simil…

Your CEO may be an exception, but every time I've seen some given honest feedback after a CEO asked for it, and it was against the CEO's position, they had their career at that company tanked. Most of the time when a CEO asks for feedback in a meeting it feels like that speech Saddam Hussein gave where all his detractors we're dragged out of the building. At this point a CEO would have to make a concerted effort to publicly get corrected and take that advice just to get past the culture that all of his peers have built in the US. Even then people are going to be hesitant because there is no protection for an employee who speaks up

Re: Why Good People Leave Large Tech Companies

#162

Post by lovich »

e59d134d wrote: post #145
Clamhead wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not possible to implement some type of anonymous feedback system? My company sends out periodic anonymous surveys as an attempt to garner feedback from the employees. The only problem I see is if employees, for whatever reason, don't believe such a system is truly anonymous and thus refuse to give honest feedback. I don't see that being a common trend though. If so, it probably signals more serious problems betw…

Too many companies have eroded employees trust by lying that something is anonymous when it is not. I personally will never trust any such survey at work.

I live when we are emailed "anonymous" surveys with a query string. It's even better when they are engineering specific surveys because at that point you have to question if they even think you can do the job if they thought they could get blatant tracking like that past any engineer

Re: Why Good People Leave Large Tech Companies

#163

Post by 2muchcoffeeman »

e59d134d wrote: post #145
Clamhead wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not possible to implement some type of anonymous feedback system? My company sends out periodic anonymous surveys as an attempt to garner feedback from the employees. The only problem I see is if employees, for whatever reason, don't believe such a system is truly anonymous and thus refuse to give honest feedback. I don't see that being a common trend though. If so, it probably signals more serious problems betw…

Too many companies have eroded employees trust by lying that something is anonymous when it is not. I personally will never trust any such survey at work.

I've seen anonymous surveys that ask for the team you're on. Way to narrow down the possibilities management.

Re: Why Good People Leave Large Tech Companies

#164

Post by lovich »

Hermel wrote: post #143
RealityNow wrote: post #99

This post rings eerily true. Recently had a company all-hands where the CEO said basically the exact same lines. The whole "if you don't love working here, then you should leave" bit made me cringe. Easy for you to say when you've got a significant equity share in the company. The saddest realization I've had working at companies is how power-hungry people are, how little respect the people in power often have for th…

> Providing counter-arguments that question the decisions of the executive caste is often seen as a threat The key to have an impact is not to pose critical questions, but to make constructive suggestions. Instead of saying "you are doing this wrong", suggest how to do better. Good leaders appreciate and encourage this, in particular if the request comes in an actionable format, i.e. "I suggest to do X in order to ac…

I don't find it very comforting that the people who are compensated the best have to be treated with kids gloves just so they can listen to the information coming from their people. I understand that may be how it _is_ but it's not how it _should be_. Additionally, people lower in the management chain are just going to avoid volunteering information if they are not 100% certain that the bosses are gonna take it well

Re: Why Good People Leave Large Tech Companies

#165

Post by freekh »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #55
quotemstr wrote: post #35

The most important lesson for people in power in big tech companies: FORMAL PROCESS IS THE ENEMY. Don't let the accumulation of gatekeepers and approvers and other capital-P Process let things become 100x harder than they need to be. Do not confuse difficulty with prudence. Your organization will become slow and ossified by default unless you take specific steps to maintain flexibility. One of these steps is to insta…

I just learned about Hegel so now everything is a nail, but... You really can't make categorical statements like "formal process is the enemy". You put formal process into place, and that creates a dialectic where you're waiting for someone to come in and champion the antithesis: "formal process is the enemy". Then that works for a bit until it doesn't and someone synthesizes: "sometimes formal is better sometimes in…

I really liked this comment :) I am looking forward to pondering upon this way of reasoning for this entire Saturday :)

Re: Why Good People Leave Large Tech Companies

#166

Post by lifeisstillgood »

sanderjd wrote: post #116
RealityNow wrote: post #99

This post rings eerily true. Recently had a company all-hands where the CEO said basically the exact same lines. The whole "if you don't love working here, then you should leave" bit made me cringe. Easy for you to say when you've got a significant equity share in the company. The saddest realization I've had working at companies is how power-hungry people are, how little respect the people in power often have for th…

I'll take the unpopular position of supporting a small room of a few "higher ups" making decisions. This is exactly what you want: a small number of people with a lot of skin in the game making important decisions. Good leaders gather feedback and counter-arguments beforehand, but then make a firm decision, and it's diminishingly rare for that decision to please everyone. The people who are not pleased should still f…

That is the same argument kings and emperors used. But over time the abuses, and the frequently stupid decisions, became too much. It's faster in an business but no different.

Democracy is coming to the last bastion of dictatorship in modern western world. It won't be pretty - but it will lead to better companies

Re: Why Good People Leave Large Tech Companies

#167

Post by lovich »

chrisbennet wrote: post #133
Aeolun wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Later on in the story it's become apparent that the line that the CEO is touting is the exact same one that the author told him 20 years ago, so I'd say that part is pretty relevant :)

I noticed that but I didn't understand what he was getting at. Was he saying that the CEO/former student was: A) Repeating what Steve told him and Steve had changed his mind about that advice? B) Repeating what Steve told him but in the wrong context?

To me it sounded like the author had truly believed that advice at the startup stage but now in a large company he saw how those words rang hollow as the employees were no longer benefiting from the companies growth. He seemed embarrassed that his words were being used to justify adding 45 ×70 minutes of commute time to a team that wasn't getting early employee equity

Re: Why Good People Leave Large Tech Companies

#168

Post by [deleted] »

chrisbennet wrote: post #133
Aeolun wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Later on in the story it's become apparent that the line that the CEO is touting is the exact same one that the author told him 20 years ago, so I'd say that part is pretty relevant :)

I noticed that but I didn't understand what he was getting at. Was he saying that the CEO/former student was: A) Repeating what Steve told him and Steve had changed his mind about that advice? B) Repeating what Steve told him but in the wrong context?

[deleted]

Re: Why Good People Leave Large Tech Companies

#169

Post by solotronics »

jmspring wrote: post #113
dleslie wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Avoidance of power inversion is, IMHO, the greatest contributing factor to this state. Management have little to no incentive to assisting the upwards mobility of their subordinates as it is, but the social stigma of someday possibly answering to those you have authority over can drive individuals to undermine the aspirations of others.

A colleague at a former company asked his then manager about the track for promotions. Said manager basically laughed and said "if you got that promotion, then you'd be competing with me". This was a company that had bands that were lumped together for purposes of evaluation.

IBM?

Re: Why Good People Leave Large Tech Companies

#170

Post by lovich »

sokoloff wrote: post #85
mnm1 wrote: post #46

This attitude of "you really have to want to work here or you ought to leave" justifies a lot of insanity. I've heard it from companies who make potential employees jump through ridiculous hoops to even get a chance at a job. Here's reality for people who suffer from this delusion: most people don't give a fuck and are just looking for a job. They're applying to dozens or hundreds of jobs (yes, even in software), and…

People are applying to dozens or hundreds of jobs at once? How is that possible? I'm generally only considering 1 new employer at a time, and the most I've ever done concurrently was applying to two companies in CA at the same time. How could there even be dozens of companies that you'd want to work for at any given time?

Maybe it's different in SF but out on the east coast I've seen people be passed for the wrong version of jQuery on the resume, or literally "not enough eye contact". Applying to jobs out here is kind of a crap shoot where you shotgun out to a ton till you get past enough bullshit to be given in person interviews where you can actually demonstrate your skills
Post reply on HN