Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts • Hacker News Board

Re: Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts

#161

Post by blakes » Mon, Jun 26, 2017, 10:12 PM UTC

peacetreefrog wrote: post #142

Never heard of McMansion Hell before, but went back and checked it out on Google Cache and it just seems mean spirited. Why should anyone care what sort of house people choose to build, buy or live in? Reminds me of the people that couldn't handle an old lady's earnest Olive Garden review a few years back. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ann-brenoff/olive-garden-revie...

I think of architecture a little bit like art, and that some art is "bad" and some is "good".

I feel like there are certain rules or techniques in say, painting, that if one follows, can contribute to the art being perceived as "good". When you combine rules or techniques and it is poorly executed, the art may be perceived as "bad". Seems to be the same with architecture.

Seems to me that Kate is an art critic of sorts. A very specific one.

Re: Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts

#162

Post by jasondemeuse » Mon, Jun 26, 2017, 10:13 PM UTC

peacetreefrog wrote: post #142

Never heard of McMansion Hell before, but went back and checked it out on Google Cache and it just seems mean spirited. Why should anyone care what sort of house people choose to build, buy or live in? Reminds me of the people that couldn't handle an old lady's earnest Olive Garden review a few years back. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ann-brenoff/olive-garden-revie...

>Why should anyone care what sort of house people choose to build, buy or live in?

Maybe because that's what she is knowledgable in, and she wants to point out bad practices in the industry she's involved in, or because they make expensive houses with cheap products that are only built to resell as opposed to have someone actually live there for an extended period of time?

Look, these things might not mean anything to you (or me for that matter), or ever have a real effect on you and that's fine, but you really can't imagine why such poor practices might annoy someone whose career is based around knowing not to do these things that are so prevalent?

Do you think subreddits like /r/programminghorror are mean spirited? If someone posted a snippet with 1000 cases in a switch statement, would you say "Why should anyone care what sort of sort of code people choose to write or use in production?"

I don't see how that is any different than this, or how calling out bad practices with broad strokes is a mean thing to do.

Re: Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts

#163

Post by siidooloo » Mon, Jun 26, 2017, 10:16 PM UTC

criddell wrote: post #147

chadgeidel wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The guest on that article and the blog author are the same person. How can you "understand that mcmansions are bad architecture" and also say "the whole thing stank of classist elitism"? The blog points fun at clearly bad buildings. Fake columns, unnecessary rooms, poor placement of re-used furniture, etc. Sarcasm is funny. The blog is sarcastic in nature. What's wrong with that?

Maybe it will just take time for some of these design choices to be appreciated? Is a fake column on a house any different than fins on a 1959 Cadillac?

McMansions more resemble the car Homer Simpson designed than a 1959 Cadillac. One of the main distinguishing features of a McMansion is that it doesn't have any unified design aesthetic. They just glom a bunch of random things together.

Re: Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts

#164

Post by dagw » Mon, Jun 26, 2017, 10:19 PM UTC

blakes wrote: post #161

peacetreefrog wrote: post #142

Never heard of McMansion Hell before, but went back and checked it out on Google Cache and it just seems mean spirited. Why should anyone care what sort of house people choose to build, buy or live in? Reminds me of the people that couldn't handle an old lady's earnest Olive Garden review a few years back. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ann-brenoff/olive-garden-revie...

I think of architecture a little bit like art, and that some art is "bad" and some is "good". I feel like there are certain rules or techniques in say, painting, that if one follows, can contribute to the art being perceived as "good". When you combine rules or techniques and it is poorly executed, the art may be perceived as "bad". Seems to be the same with architecture. Seems to me that Kate is an art critic of sor…

That is one dimension of architecture and architecture criticism. The other is if the building is actually fit for purpose. Personally I wish more architecture criticism would focus on the intended use of the building and how well it achieves that. At the end of the day buildings aren't land art.

Re: Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts

#165

Post by ghaff » Mon, Jun 26, 2017, 10:19 PM UTC

sseveran wrote: post #154

pwthornton wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As engineers and designers, we should side with her on this one. The core conceit of McMansion Hell is that these are this homes built without experts, particularly architects (but any kind of designer is absent from them). These are often big, expensive homes, where the builder and the buyer thought they didn't need the help of an actual professional. This isn't just an American thing, but it seems particularly bad…

Post college I had a mentor that was in the real estate development business, not for McMansions, first time homebuyer and some developments in the next price point up ( Houses are a bit like software. Builders will typically have base plans and then depending on the price point a varying number of customizations that can be applied. The more expensive the home the more customizations offered. A really great thing ab…

>I am no fan of McMansions although my primary complaint is that many of them are just built so close together, not that their aesthetics are particularly bad.

I guess I'd argue that the aesthetics are bad for the reasons the blog in question points out--lack of unifying design principles, etc. At least to my eye.

However, I also agree with your point about space. This may not be popular with the density crowd, but a few acres with lots of trees and other landscaping hide a lot of architectural faults. Cram big houses assembled from random architectural styles on a half acre with just a garden or two and it's not attractive.

Re: Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts

#166

Post by cr0sh » Mon, Jun 26, 2017, 10:20 PM UTC

Declanomous wrote: post #135

rayiner wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up in Northern Virginia among these McMansions, and frankly I don't buy the elitism angle. These folks have a lot of money (top 5% at least, if not even top 1%) and are among the best educated in the country. And these aren't dwellings driven by the need for functionality. It's not like people here have big families they need to house (empty nesters can afford them more readily than people with families!). The…

Additionally, McMansions are often not very functional. As much as I would appreciate more space, I've been in enough McMansions to appreciate how important a well-built and well-designed house is. Completely ignoring scale doesn't just make McMansions aesthetically unpleasant, it them uncomfortable or completely unsuitable for most of the things we use a house for as well. If you spend any time in a McMansion, you w…

> The fridge will be placed on the complete opposite side of the room from the island with the stove in it.

This is actually proper kitchen design (the island being in the way would be a problem, though). It's called a "kitchen triangle" and the proper shape and size of it determines how efficient a kitchen is (the third vertex is the sink).

A properly sized and shaped kitchen triangle can help turn cooking into a very efficient experience. One too large, or with an island in the way, or not correctly shaped (or not even a triangle) can make it a horrible place to cook in.

I will grant, though, that in some cases the kitchen doesn't ever serve a practical purpose, but instead serves as an interior "conspicuous consumption" focal point. Easiest way to tell if this is the case is how well used the appliances are; if they look showroom shiny with nary a splatter, dent, scratch, etc on them - you are likely not looking at a working kitchen.

Finally - all of this is moot if the person cooking is skilled enough. My wife has cooked highly commented meals for hundreds of people out of a kitchen smaller than some McMansion's walk-in pantry, using a stove that only had "on" and "off" (where "on" was set at 500 degrees F), and a work surface smaller than her cutting board (this was a "commercial" kitchen at one of here former employers who had a strange sense of what was the best things to spend money on - maintenance was not one of them).

Re: Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts

#167

Post by nothis » Mon, Jun 26, 2017, 10:21 PM UTC

uses wrote: post #69

I totally understand the whole "McMansions are bad architecture" thing... However, something about it really bothers me. There was an episode of 99% Invisible where the guest was talking about their McMansions blog and how it makes fun of these Horrid dwellings. The whole thing stank of classist elitism. The Wrong Type of people were getting the chance to design and build large houses, and of course they're applying…

>The Wrong Type of people were getting the chance to design and build large houses, and of course they're applying their Bad Taste that's neither Genuine nor Authentic. They don't know about the traditions of Fine Architecture so of course they were doing it all wrong...how embarrassing for them!

Leave out the "wrong type of people" part and you got pretty much every criticism ever. Bad movies, bad books, bad food...

The thing is, I don't believe McMansion owners need our pity. They're clearly well off and not afraid to show it. Speaking of "elitism", I'm pretty sure the author of the McMansion blog is poorer than any of the reviewed houses' owners. It's not like we're making fun of homeless people for having dirty clothes. Plus those damn houses are visible, they're part of our environment and not something you do for fun in your hobby room.

I can't get myself to feel sorry, even though I can understand a general opposition against "calling out" private individuals so publicly on the internet.

Re: Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts

#168

Post by andrewmutz » Mon, Jun 26, 2017, 10:22 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #106

uses wrote: post #69

I totally understand the whole "McMansions are bad architecture" thing... However, something about it really bothers me. There was an episode of 99% Invisible where the guest was talking about their McMansions blog and how it makes fun of these Horrid dwellings. The whole thing stank of classist elitism. The Wrong Type of people were getting the chance to design and build large houses, and of course they're applying…

I grew up in Northern Virginia among these McMansions, and frankly I don't buy the elitism angle. These folks have a lot of money (top 5% at least, if not even top 1%) and are among the best educated in the country. And these aren't dwellings driven by the need for functionality. It's not like people here have big families they need to house (empty nesters can afford them more readily than people with families!). The…

> taste doesn't exist and everything is always subjective.

Surely you would agree that taste is subjective...

Re: Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts

#169

Post by lightedman » Mon, Jun 26, 2017, 10:23 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #77

aezell wrote: post #56

Seems like a subscription to a national MLS service would allow her access to all the same images with none of the copyright claims Zillow wants to make.

I doubt an MLS service would permit a user whose intent is to mock some of the listings. She'd have to become a real estate broker, too.

Looking at MLS.com's ToS/ToU, nothing in there mentions photographic copyright at all.

Re: Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts

#170

Post by Shivetya » Mon, Jun 26, 2017, 10:23 PM UTC

curiousgal wrote: post #125

Amorymeltzer wrote: post #58

The Washington Post ran an article/video combo today[1] about Kate and McMansion Hell, and while Kate herself didn't mention Zillow the article itself did a few times. I imagine this is what prompted the legal threat. It's an entertaining video if you have five minutes. Also of note: Kate's twitter posts from this morning also indicate she has received threatening emails following the video[2], which is sadly not sur…

I honestly could not finish that video. She is as pretentious as the home owners she criticizes.

she stretches a bit into hyperbole at times and her tone of voice isn't the best which may convey the wrong impression. throw in that a few of the homes which flashed by are actual real standards and mcmansions. Size isn't the real determinant factor even when compared with lot size. I have run into some row home remodels that will make you flinch.

I think the bulk of the problem stems from some just being too gaudy, instead of adopting what is in the region they try to bring another region in or a tv show impression home.

if by size alone then my neighborhood would qualify but the homes here are very basic and large to support big families; 4/5/6 bedroom and square footage starting in the 3k range to 5.5k. Go a few miles and you can find some 2.5k-4k homes that fit her styling fail bill just fine and they are that too inside as well.

So I tend to lump this in gaudy on the outside and just as bad inside. the idea good architects are not involved is just an industry trying their best to redirect