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Apple adds a tracker blocker to desktop Safari

techcrunch.com

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Re: Apple adds a tracker blocker to desktop Safari

#161

Post by webuser321 »

Meanwhile Apple is tracking users 24/7.

There is no option to turn off phoning home to Apple in Apple's pre-installed operating systems. Every user of iOS is constantly pinging Apple servers all day every day.

Connect an iOS device to the internet and watch the network. The user is given no control over this. All users are assumed to need Apple's help setting the system time.

The networking functionality of NeXT/Apple's operating systems is based on open source BSD operating system code.

But BSD does not phone home to some organization when you install it. Why not? Surely Apple's approach is the best one for all users, right?

It is amusing to watch these companies proclaim they will block others from tracking and serving ads while continuing to siphon user data themselves, often in ways that are all but transparent to users. Apple can block everyone else, then I can block Apple. OK by me.

Someone in this thread made some comment about Microsoft Edge not tracking users. Do people seriously believe nonsense like that? MS was dumping debug output via DrWatson to the network long before collecting user data for profit was even a strategy.

Connect a Windows computer to the internet and watch the network. All on by default. Unlike Apple, they have no prepared explanation/justification why they need to do this.

And even if they did, who cares? Users prefer not to be tracked. Companies are admitting they know this.

Users could opt-in to tracking if they believed they were getting some benefit.

But that is not how this game works. There is no "opt-in". It is on by default. There was no intention to make tracking a "choice".

Probably because companies know what the choice of users would be and it would not be favorable to the company.

But that is not something we are allowed to discuss.

Re: Apple adds a tracker blocker to desktop Safari

#162

Post by lovich »

ksk wrote: post #107
Spivak wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine you were a police officer with this mentality. "As someone who investigates lots of crimes, it's totally fine if someone invokes the fifth amendment, I don't have the right to compel them to answer." "I mean if you don't care about something prevents you from doing your job, why even join the force?"

I don't have to "imagine" anything. Let me invite you to consider the context of my original comment before coming up with ridiculous comparisons.

Doesn't seem that ridiculous a comparison to me. You don't have a right to compel something from someone else, but that doesn't meant you just have to give up at whatever task you are trying to accomplish

Re: Apple adds a tracker blocker to desktop Safari

#163

Post by gchokov »

tpush wrote: post #99
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Going to my IE right now to activate it, I have to say this is a janky solution. It opens the Add-ons window, where you can see you have no Tracking Protection Lists. Then you can click to browse the add-on gallery for them, and then you have to scroll down and pick a list from a set of options. While this is flexible, open, and that's all good, the lack of a common sense default and a multi-step setup process is pro…

"it's gonna make a huge dent in Google Analytics' numbers". Very unlikely, since almost nobody uses desktop Safari.

Lol.

Re: Apple adds a tracker blocker to desktop Safari

#164

Post by lovich »

ksk wrote: post #119
icelancer wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't prevent me from doing my job. It makes it harder. Oh no, I have to work harder.

Why is it wrong to want to make your job easier? I guess I don't see your point of view..

Why is wrong for people to want to protect something they have of value, from someone else just harvesting it from them? I can see why this is annoying but can you really not see the other side of this situation?

Re: Apple adds a tracker blocker to desktop Safari

#165

Post by ams6110 »

cptskippy wrote: post #100
dkonofalski wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a huge difference between being asked if it's ok to share your data and just sharing it by default. Additionally, Apple doesn't offer any kind of way for anyone but you to decrypt your data.

So you've never actually installed Windows 10 then? Because from the beginning it's asked for permission to share your data for things like Cortona, the touch keyboard, ink, voice, etc. Based on user response they've evolved the interface and made it clearer removing anti-patterns. This is the same stuff Apple asks for permissions on. Microsoft doesn't let you turn off telemetry data entirely. Things like hardware co…

I thought I had read that there were ways to shut off all the MS telemetry via hidden settings or registry changes.

Cortana can also be disabled by quickly deleting or renaming a file somewhere, after killing a process. Specifics can be googled.

Re: Apple adds a tracker blocker to desktop Safari

#166

Post by Darthy »

ljoshua wrote: post #155
Darthy wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's actually not how ApplePay works. You get a new randomized credit card number, but only once. Shops can still track you by checking for the number. You can check that yourself by looking at receipts when you pay with ApplePay - each receipt features the same numbers (most receipt only show the last 4 digits, but they are always the same when you pay with ApplePay).

Is it a randomized number per card per merchant, or just a randomized number per card?

It's a randomized number per original card. Every merchant sees the same number. According to some other poster, if you have several devices (like an iPhone and an Apple Watch), then you get a new number for each device.

So, not only can a single merchant track you, but all merchants can cross-reference the data they have about you and track your whereabouts, purchasing habits etc. They just don't know who you are anymore, because that information is not transmitted. Unless one merchant asks for your email or home address, and this merchant then adds that email to a shared database, at which point we're back to step 1 and the merchants know everything about you.

Re: Apple adds a tracker blocker to desktop Safari

#167

Post by cptskippy »

dkonofalski wrote: post #158
cptskippy wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you've never actually installed Windows 10 then? Because from the beginning it's asked for permission to share your data for things like Cortona, the touch keyboard, ink, voice, etc. Based on user response they've evolved the interface and made it clearer removing anti-patterns. This is the same stuff Apple asks for permissions on. Microsoft doesn't let you turn off telemetry data entirely. Things like hardware co…

Yes, I have. I installed it 2 weeks before it was released to the public as part of the Windows Insider program and then again on several machines after release and, most recently, in the Creator's Update. Until there was a huge backlash against MS, all of those things were opt-out and turned on by default, including Cortana and the ink features. Apple does not turn any of these on by default, nor have they ever, and…

You're right that it's opt-out with Microsoft and opt-in with Apple. However Microsoft's opt-out screen appears during setup before you ever even reach the desktop. Where as Apple's opt-in is a nag that occurs periodically as you use the device or anytime you install an update.

I understand that Apple has publicly disclosed how they anonymize data and roll identifiers but Microsoft hasn't so you really can't say if telemetry data can be tied back to a user or not because you don't know.

Re: Apple adds a tracker blocker to desktop Safari

#168

Post by cptskippy »

ams6110 wrote: post #165
cptskippy wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you've never actually installed Windows 10 then? Because from the beginning it's asked for permission to share your data for things like Cortona, the touch keyboard, ink, voice, etc. Based on user response they've evolved the interface and made it clearer removing anti-patterns. This is the same stuff Apple asks for permissions on. Microsoft doesn't let you turn off telemetry data entirely. Things like hardware co…

I thought I had read that there were ways to shut off all the MS telemetry via hidden settings or registry changes. Cortana can also be disabled by quickly deleting or renaming a file somewhere, after killing a process. Specifics can be googled.

There are ways to disable all of the various data collection mechanisms but they aren't sanctioned by Microsoft and MS provides no user interface for them. There are several projects on Github that perform varying degrees of this.

The same goes for Apple's collection mechanisms.

Re: Apple adds a tracker blocker to desktop Safari

#169

Post by cptskippy »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #152
cptskippy wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you've never actually installed Windows 10 then? Because from the beginning it's asked for permission to share your data for things like Cortona, the touch keyboard, ink, voice, etc. Based on user response they've evolved the interface and made it clearer removing anti-patterns. This is the same stuff Apple asks for permissions on. Microsoft doesn't let you turn off telemetry data entirely. Things like hardware co…

Yes, Microsoft has a long history of providing user privacy and control settings and then ignoring or reverting them.

Absolutely and so does everyone else. Google is great at asking/nagging you to turn features back on that you've turned off in Android. And every time you update iOS, if you have Location Services or some other feature like iCloud turned off then you get nagged to turn them back on.

Re: Apple adds a tracker blocker to desktop Safari

#170

Post by dkonofalski »

cptskippy wrote: post #167
dkonofalski wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I have. I installed it 2 weeks before it was released to the public as part of the Windows Insider program and then again on several machines after release and, most recently, in the Creator's Update. Until there was a huge backlash against MS, all of those things were opt-out and turned on by default, including Cortana and the ink features. Apple does not turn any of these on by default, nor have they ever, and…

You're right that it's opt-out with Microsoft and opt-in with Apple. However Microsoft's opt-out screen appears during setup before you ever even reach the desktop. Where as Apple's opt-in is a nag that occurs periodically as you use the device or anytime you install an update. I understand that Apple has publicly disclosed how they anonymize data and roll identifiers but Microsoft hasn't so you really can't say if t…

Apple's opt-in is only triggered when you attempt to use a feature that relies on a function of the opt-in or when a new OS feature utilizes those functions. It's not a nag. It doesn't ask you until you want to use it. Microsoft assumes you want to use it and hides the opt-out settings under an "Advanced" button during setup when it asks about new features and then promptly asks you again after it assumes that you don't know what you're doing. The "Are you sure?" prompts on Windows are far more egregious.
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