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WA, NY and CA Governors Announce Formation of United States Climate Alliance

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Re: WA, NY and CA Governors Announce Formation of United States Climate Alliance

#161

Post by azernik »

toisanji wrote: post #90

I would read the full speech from Trump, he makes some good points, although im sure some of it is false and not sure how it compares to other factors. http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/01/politics/trump-paris-agreement... "For example, under the agreement, China will be able to increase these emissions by a staggering number of years -- 13. They can do whatever they want for 13 years. Not us. India makes its participation…

1. Poor countries are allowed to increase their carbon emissions because their current emissions are already low per person, and requiring then to lower emissions would basically be telling then they're not allowed to become developed countries. They will not sign on.

2. We're paying poor countries to mitigate these effects, by subsidizing their use of cleaner energy to industrialize. And to compensate them, since the areas most negatively affected by climate change are also poor.

3. The United States is not, in fact, particularly generous about foreign aid.

4. The Paris Agreement is intended to be a start - the reductions are so small in part to win over right-wing Americans, who in turn have the audacity to turn around and blast this agreement for not being effective enough.

Re: WA, NY and CA Governors Announce Formation of United States Climate Alliance

#162

Post by xienze »

joshualross wrote: post #155
xienze wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah that's my biggest beef with the Paris Agreement. If it's about the global environment, why are all countries not compelled to participate equally? Don't let China off the hook and I think a lot of people would be less skeptical of the whole arrangement.

A couple thoughts - what is equally? The US is the historically the largest contributor of greenhouse gases by a wide margin[1]. And last I checked, a vast majority of people support the agreement[2], including half of trump supporters. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2011/apr/21/countrie... [2] http://climatecommunication.yale.edu/publications/paris_agre...

> The US is the historically the largest contributor of greenhouse gases by a wide margin

Sure, but guess what: China is right behind us. History means squat. They're a major polluter _right now_. Why are they not held to the same standard we are?

Re: WA, NY and CA Governors Announce Formation of United States Climate Alliance

#163

Post by idibidiartists »

legostormtroopr wrote: post #58
idibidiartists wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Replace Nuclear with Renewables. Not with coal.

Why replace nuclear at all? Renewables are great but the nuclear energy industry has a great capacity for cleaning generating energy.

Fukushima, Chernobyl, 3 Mile Islant, and in my own state of WA. How many victims of ratiation caused health issues?

Re: WA, NY and CA Governors Announce Formation of United States Climate Alliance

#164

Post by zachwood »

throwaway-1209 wrote: post #81

As a taxpayer in one of those states, I'm more worried about whether they plan to pony up the $100B/yr that the US was obliged to under the agreement. If they do, I'd like to know where it'll come from. And if they don't, then what exactly will this alliance do?

The US was not obligated to pay $100B/yr in the agreement.

Obama pledged $3B by 2020.

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/why-trump-seeing...

Re: WA, NY and CA Governors Announce Formation of United States Climate Alliance

#165

Post by saosebastiao »

thesmallestcat wrote: post #64
saosebastiao wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up in Stockton, I know precisely how diverse California is.

Now I'm just plain confused -- how could somebody who grew up in the Central Valley and regularly saw trucks with confederate flags feel that Californians are some bloc that are so dissimilar from Alabamans? I'd argue that San Franciscans are way, way closer to Sydneysiders than Alabamans, but that's besides the point and misunderstands what sets the US apart from other commonwealth nations culturally. While in some…

Because it has practically nothing to do with our political divide (you can find left and right anywhere in the world) and everything to do with geography and how it shapes the things we care about.

For example, find me an Alabamian who cares about how the Oroville Dam situation is resolved. Or whether California regulates housing growth at the state level instead of the city level. About how to fund or build CHSRA. Or how to preserve Sierra Nevada forests from climate change and pestilence. Or even how to build sidewalks in suburban Merced.

These things materially and significantly affect Californians, but Alabamians and Australians honestly couldn't give a fuck. But for Californians they get drowned out, both financially and in mindshare, by things that are of far less consequence. We send the majority of our taxes into to the federal ether, never to be heard from or seen again, and it should be the other way around.

Show me a government that is successful, prosperous, and popular with its people, and I'll show you one that is limited in geographic scope.

Re: WA, NY and CA Governors Announce Formation of United States Climate Alliance

#166

Post by olewhalehunter »

erik-g wrote: post #103
olewhalehunter wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among..."

I mean, I really want us as a country to follow the agreement, but not so badly that I want to dissolve the entirety of the United States and legally unravel our entire country over it. This, IMO, is not Civil War-worthy.

Would anyone be under any illusion that an armed US retaliation against the Pacific Northwest joining Canada would be anything other than just an invasion.

Re: WA, NY and CA Governors Announce Formation of United States Climate Alliance

#167

Post by chasing »

Sivart13 wrote: post #57
chasing wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're someone who has been on Hacker News for almost five months and the only other comment you made before today was how you'd totally be a porn star, cos, y'know, free sex and drugs. I'm not trying to say anything, I'm just saying. Just pointing it out. And maybe this isn't some grand liberal conspiracy because it's something that the entire planet and most Americans believe is a huge problem and maybe some intell…

Shaming people for their comment history isn't a good look.

I think my point has been lost and it's tough to transmit tone-of-voice in a comment on a website. My failings. The comment wasn't about shaming him, it was parodying the lazy "I'm just saying" rhetorical technique of casting aspersions on something.

Onward through the fog.

Re: WA, NY and CA Governors Announce Formation of United States Climate Alliance

#168

Post by xienze »

brianpgordon wrote: post #144
xienze wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah that's my biggest beef with the Paris Agreement. If it's about the global environment, why are all countries not compelled to participate equally? Don't let China off the hook and I think a lot of people would be less skeptical of the whole arrangement.

Realistically, poorer countries are going to be able to do almost nothing to help the global situation. The understanding is that richer countries (who, to be fair, have done the majority of polluting historically) will have to grant enormous subsidies to effect change in developing countries if we're going to meet international climate goals. I guess that's a difficult pill to swallow if you espouse nationalist econ…

We're calling China and India poor countries now? In relation to the US every country is poor. But as you stated, it's a global problem. It needs a global solution. Pollute less! Hold everyone to the same standard.

Re: WA, NY and CA Governors Announce Formation of United States Climate Alliance

#169

Post by sethrin »

xienze wrote: post #134
angrydev wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your strawman is showing

Which would be what? The fact that the earth goes through natural warming and cooling periods?

Is there anything in particular about climate science that you need help understanding?

Re: WA, NY and CA Governors Announce Formation of United States Climate Alliance

#170

Post by velodrome »

michaelchisari wrote: post #76
pat2man wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about Texas?

I had a caveat in there about Texas that I decided to remove, should have kept it, but I'll respond here instead. I think Texas' situation is too unique. They're effectively a petrostate right now. Now, they seem to be doing the right thing with things like the PSF and PUF, so I'd say that their approach, like their politics, is deeply purple, and it's not a terrible approach. But it's very specific, and not necessar…

> I think Texas' situation is too unique. They're effectively a petrostate right now.

Conveniently ignoring the fact that California is ALSO a petrostate.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2013/08/03/the...

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