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Proposal to start a new implementation of Thunderbird based on web technologies

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Re: Proposal to start a new implementation of Thunderbird based on web technologies

#161

Post by hashhar »

randomdata wrote: post #75
Certhas wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Working with big folders tends to be a bit error prone to me. I would like to synchronize my filters/settings across different devices. On MacOs it randomly hangs for tens of seconds and eats batteries for some people (me included). So yeah, it's mostly done, but better virtual folder support, and a streamlined UI would both be hugely appreciated by me. But, because it's mostly done, I also will just happily keep usi…

Is a rewrite necessary to improve on those aspects over modifying the existing codebase?

Yes. Because the Thunderbird and Firefox codebases are diverging so much that instead of just maintaining Thudnebird people will have to maintain a fork of Gecko too.

Re: Proposal to start a new implementation of Thunderbird based on web technologies

#163

Post by Dylan16807 »

nkkollaw wrote: post #139
Silhouette wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a toolbar with 100 buttons of the same size: "Write, Chat, Reply, Reply all, Archive, Address book, Get email, Tag, Quick filter". My main Thunderbird toolbar has get mail, write new message and quick filtering. It took me perhaps 10 seconds back when I first installed it on this computer to hide a couple of other buttons like chat that I don't use myself. The second toolbar when I have a message open has jus…

> My main Thunderbird toolbar has get mail, write new message and quick filtering. It took me perhaps 10 seconds back when I first installed it on this computer to hide a couple of other buttons like chat that I don't use myself. That's not how it works. The authors have to take the time to study the situation, talk about it, make hard decisions and cut out features that are useless or barely useful, and have the bal…

How many new email clients do you install per decade? If you chose a client based on a couple minutes of customization effort then you're almost certainly making an irrational decision.

Not to excuse bad UIs that slow down every single navigation, which adds up. But picking toolbar buttons is a one time cost.

Re: Proposal to start a new implementation of Thunderbird based on web technologies

#164

Post by Dylan16807 »

nkkollaw wrote: post #141
Silhouette wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems you prefer the more "modern" style of relying on Google's online services and Chrome's frequent updates. That's fine, but it's not an objective standard. For example, some of us consider a UI that doesn't keep moving around every few weeks to be a feature, not a bug. I have absolutely no problem with a practical tool like Thunderbird still using the same layout it had 5 years ago, if that layout works well.…

I find the opposite to be true. Apple Mail and Thunderbird give me a lot of false positives, and usually leave spam right in my inbox. Google—whom I'd assume look at what other users do with an email to figure out what's spam—always manage to filter out unwanted mail and keep legit emails in my inbox. Both Apple Mail and Thunderbird are so dumb that they can't figure out I don't speak Chinese, and even after I mark 1…

In gmail right now I have 50 emails in the spam folder. About 3 are actual spam. The rest are from automated mailing lists where most of the mails go into the inbox, but it rejects some at random. That's a terrible way for a spam filter to behave.

Several of these I specifically have incoming mail filters for, and they still go to spam at random.

Re: Proposal to start a new implementation of Thunderbird based on web technologies

#165

Post by ricardonunez »

janci wrote: post #74
cakeface wrote: post #11

Does anyone actually have any problems with Thunderbird? I feel like it is "done" software. It works, perfectly, for all my needs. It's fast. It has great UI. It lets me read and write email.

The filter is slow in regular-size mailbox and almost unusable on my bloated gmail. I don't mind getting results progressively as the messages are scanned, but it runs on the UI thread and UI is horribly slow while the filter is working. The search is just broken. It gives messages that don't have anything of search string in them and misses the right ones.

I agree on the search, but are you referring to the filter search box? or gmail filters? the filter search box is the main reason I didn't switch to any of all the other alternatives like mailbird. It helps me to avoid using the TB search.

Re: Proposal to start a new implementation of Thunderbird based on web technologies

#166

Post by phkahler »

sidlls wrote: post #27

"JavaScript is the best choice." (Citation Needed). This proposal identifies serious legitimate concerns with Thunderbird development going forward, but the proposed solution looks more like a hammer seeking a nail than a thoughtful approach to addressing the concerns.

Yeah, I cringed at the JS thing. Why not do it in Rust and start with some of the Servo code as a base? That would give the developers an intermediate application to work with that doesn't require the full capability of a web browser.

Re: Proposal to start a new implementation of Thunderbird based on web technologies

#167

Post by xmichael99 »

cakeface wrote: post #11

Does anyone actually have any problems with Thunderbird? I feel like it is "done" software. It works, perfectly, for all my needs. It's fast. It has great UI. It lets me read and write email.

Search is complete garbage, basically unusable.

Re: Proposal to start a new implementation of Thunderbird based on web technologies

#168

Post by flukus »

BeetleB wrote: post #98
nkkollaw wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe with web standards (maybe, I'm not sure), but not the rest. Just the fact that the address bar font is the same size as the rest of the UI gives me the impression that they didn't think it through. Downloading files has the same problem, it's relegated in a small button, while it's one of the main features. The whole interface is one of the most unintuitive things I've ever used, considering how simple a browse…

>Chrome had search integrated in the address bar from version 1, every time I opened Firefox year after year and I saw that little separate input for searching I felt like using grandma's browser. As did Firefox, kinda, and they keep flip flopping on it. It used to be that if you type any string, it does a "I'm Feeling Lucky" search. Now, on my FF, it does a Google search. So it still works... >From a technological p…

> As did Firefox, kinda, and they keep flip flopping on it. It used to be that if you type any string, it does a "I'm Feeling Lucky" search. Now, on my FF, it does a Google search. So it still works...

The mozilla suite had it long before firefox too. This kept me on it for years after firefox was released.

Re: Proposal to start a new implementation of Thunderbird based on web technologies

#169

Post by flukus »

zmix wrote: post #150

I'd rather see projects like Cyberfox, Thunderbird, Palemoon and Evolus Pencil (which, sadly, has been rewritten by now) taking up xulrunner, fork it and continue developing it. I have yet to find a better system for rapid application development. XUL is wonderful, extentable, everybody know CSS and Javascript these days, XML is very well suited for such tasks. It's one of the best technologies for power-users I ever…

> I have yet to find a better system for rapid application development. XUL is wonderful, extentable, everybody know CSS and Javascript these days, XML is very well suited for such tasks. It's one of the best technologies for power-users I ever came around!

It also looks awful and ignores desktop themeing. Or is that just firefox?

Re: Proposal to start a new implementation of Thunderbird based on web technologies

#170

Post by nkkollaw »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #164
nkkollaw wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find the opposite to be true. Apple Mail and Thunderbird give me a lot of false positives, and usually leave spam right in my inbox. Google—whom I'd assume look at what other users do with an email to figure out what's spam—always manage to filter out unwanted mail and keep legit emails in my inbox. Both Apple Mail and Thunderbird are so dumb that they can't figure out I don't speak Chinese, and even after I mark 1…

In gmail right now I have 50 emails in the spam folder. About 3 are actual spam. The rest are from automated mailing lists where most of the mails go into the inbox, but it rejects some at random. That's a terrible way for a spam filter to behave. Several of these I specifically have incoming mail filters for, and they still go to spam at random.

I don't know about Gmail, I only use Google Inbox and I get 0 false positives.
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