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Brains Sweep Themselves Clean of Toxins During Sleep (2013)

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Re: Brains Sweep Themselves Clean of Toxins During Sleep (2013)

#161

Post by coldtea »

smallgovt wrote: post #143
coldtea wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This strikes me as the type of comment that sounds artificially 'deep' but has no constructive or logical basis A bizarro thing to say, given that the parent gave several arguments that make sense from an evolutionary/physical viewpoint, like "sleeping requires much less energy" and "the only reason to be awake is to eat and reproduce". > What does 'default state' even mean in this context? The state that requires…

> The state that requires the less energy expenditure? Similar to a rest/equilibrium state in physics? That's a very reasonable definition. Taking that into account, let's revisit the context of the parent comment: "What if being asleep is the default state for any organism?" What do you mean "what if"? "What if " is not a constructive or insightful question. > A bizarro thing to say, given that the parent gave sever…

>Taking that into account, let's revisit the context of the parent comment: "What if being asleep is the default state for any organism?" What do you mean "what if"? "What if " is not a constructive or insightful question.

Well, assuming it's true, it's not that "obvious". And even if it is obvious to e.g. a biologist, it's not at all obvious to a layperson.

In fact it's so "not obvious" that you didn't even consider it valid when the parent said it (I merely clarified it further).

>Repeating myself: If you're suggesting there's no reason for sleep other than conserving energy, that's patently false.

Why repeat that though? It's not as is somebody claimed it.

What parent said (and I clarified) was whether sleep is the default state of an animal, and everything else is a deviation from that default to achieve a specific (reproductive etc) purpose.

So not only we did NOT say that "there's no reason for sleep other than conserving energy", but we explicitly said something close to being the opposite: that the only reason to be awake is to "eat and reproduce".

Re: Brains Sweep Themselves Clean of Toxins During Sleep (2013)

#162

Post by eckza »

bmelton wrote: post #146
eckza wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an American, living in late capitalism, I do not see this as anything but extremely wishful thinking for 99% of the working population here. But if this sort of thing ever does happen, then I absolutely hope that it goes down as you've described.

Yes, your anti-capitalist intentions were pretty clear from your earlier post. Put simply, I do not share your views on the subject.

That's fair. Sorry, I hope I didn't get too carried away. Thanks for the dialogue. :)

Re: Brains Sweep Themselves Clean of Toxins During Sleep (2013)

#163

Post by bmelton »

eckza wrote: post #162
bmelton wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, your anti-capitalist intentions were pretty clear from your earlier post. Put simply, I do not share your views on the subject.

That's fair. Sorry, I hope I didn't get too carried away. Thanks for the dialogue. :)

No need to apologize, I just don't agree.

In the time I've been alive, I've seen more and more employers gravitating towards fewer hours, more lenient work schedules, etc. My first job was basically a minimum of 10 hours a day, and 6, sometimes 7 days a week. Nowadays, companies (especially in tech, mind you) are realizing the difficulty in recruiting / training / keeping personnel and are competing on benefits to the extent that 'unlimited' vacation days, telework, longer maternity and paternity leaves, etc. And before the obvious counterargument is made, this isn't limited just to technology (though it does seem to be blazing the trail.) Tech, agriculture, finance, business, and any industry in which recruiting and keeping talent are tricky are basically trading dollars for perks, and often, the result of that is that employees get to keep more of their personal time for themselves.

Sure, this hasn't affected every industry, and for industries where labor is a commodity, it may never occur, but just as sure as you believe your scenario is the result of capitalism, I believe that the increase in perks / time / accommodation is the same.

Re: Brains Sweep Themselves Clean of Toxins During Sleep (2013)

#164

Post by e40 »

Namrog84 wrote: post #66
e40 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read somewhere in the last 10 years that dreams were practice for real life situations. After hearing that, when I awake in the middle of a dream, I always test that hypothesis, and sure enough, sometimes is quite plausible.

Most of my dreams involve a lot of supernatural events and scenarios that'd be quite unlikely in real life. Am I preparing for a day soon where magic, superpowers and other super natural events become real?

bkkssnn hit the nail on the head, but I'll leave this here:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-literary-mind/20091...

as a reply to your snarkiness.

Re: Brains Sweep Themselves Clean of Toxins During Sleep (2013)

#166

Post by ionised »

bmelton wrote: post #41
mrzool wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why force things? I don't want 50% more waking hours. I enjoy my sleep tremendously.

I suspect (but do not know) that you enjoy your sleep because of its restorative effect. If you could obviate the need for the restorative effect, and instead just always feel newly restored, would you still enjoy going to sleep for no reason? Personally, I dislike the need for sleep. I put it off for as long as I can manage, and try to get as little of it as I can get away with. For me, I have a hard time functionin…

> anything more then 5.5 hours and I feel like I've thrown the day away.

Statistically you are unlikely to be one of those people for whom 5-6 hours sleep daily is sufficient, so all you are doing to yourself is contributing to increased aggression, dulling of empathy and reduced impulse control that comes with insufficient sleep.

Re: Brains Sweep Themselves Clean of Toxins During Sleep (2013)

#167

Post by dimaggiosghost »

twinkletwinkle wrote: post #87
che_shirecat wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Along this line of thinking, if we knew exactly what was happening in the brain during sleep, could we speed up the process with mechanical/chemical means? Could we turn off brain functions to shrink the cells (or co-opt the existing sleep process and do this after one has fallen asleep), do the cleaning process (faster, while keeping the same effect) then wake up for maybe 30 minutes total of "sleep" a day? I person…

The elbow surgery that baseball pitchers sometimes need. There were reports of pitchers throwing better afterwards, which led to young aspiring pitchers with healthy elbows requesting the surgery. I don't know much about the actual process, I was just reading an article about the ethics of operating on a normal elbow in order to gain some competitive advantage.

Tommy John surgery is what it's usually referred to, after the first pitcher to undergo the procedure in the 1970s.

It's pretty accepted that the surgery is not performance enhancing against the healthy baseline. Some pitchers come back throwing harder because they had significant impairment (wearing of the tendons) before.

Re: Brains Sweep Themselves Clean of Toxins During Sleep (2013)

#168

Post by afarrell »

cbsmith wrote: post #89
afarrell wrote: post #16

My alma mater has a saying: "sleep is for the weak". If you go to a university with that slogan, here is one more reason why it is foolish. If you want to learn effectively and work efficiently, take care of your body and take care of your brain.

I always believed that line is intended to be sarcastic.

Given that it was said without a sarcastic tone by people who irregularly stayed up until 4 am or whenever, I don't know how you got that interpretation.

Re: Brains Sweep Themselves Clean of Toxins During Sleep (2013)

#169

Post by afarrell »

Hydraulix989 wrote: post #34
jpm_sd wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MIT

It's a shame what these "top" schools can get away with because of the sacrifices some people are willing to put themselves through to get a coveted degree.

Some of it is the school's fault. Some of it is the fault of the particular student culture at the school.

Re: Brains Sweep Themselves Clean of Toxins During Sleep (2013)

#170

Post by bmelton »

ionised wrote: post #166
bmelton wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect (but do not know) that you enjoy your sleep because of its restorative effect. If you could obviate the need for the restorative effect, and instead just always feel newly restored, would you still enjoy going to sleep for no reason? Personally, I dislike the need for sleep. I put it off for as long as I can manage, and try to get as little of it as I can get away with. For me, I have a hard time functionin…

> anything more then 5.5 hours and I feel like I've thrown the day away. Statistically you are unlikely to be one of those people for whom 5-6 hours sleep daily is sufficient, so all you are doing to yourself is contributing to increased aggression, dulling of empathy and reduced impulse control that comes with insufficient sleep.

I worked for 6 years in a 100% remote position, 3 timezones away from my employer, so as such, I kept a loose schedule. Eventually, I adopted the practice of just going to bed when I was tired, and waking up whenever I woke up. Sure, sometimes I was woken up by noises outside or what have you, but when I'd wake up on my own, usually it was between 4.5 to 5 hours from when I went to bed.

I wasn't going to bed at regular hours, and I wasn't waking up to an alarm, so I guess I am in that group (also, I don't have increased aggression or impulse control, but I don't know how I'd measure empathy). That said, I did not realize that I was statistically rare, so thanks for pointing out that maybe my 5 hours a night advice isn't applicable to others. Regardless of the amount of time involved in sleeping, I still would prefer not to have to take it, if that were an option.

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