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How I legally got scammed for $250 by an upscale apartment complex

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Re: How I legally got scammed for $250 by an upscale apartment complex

#161

Post by flukus »

abeyer wrote: post #90
flukus wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it isn't fed the information then it can't discriminate. The meat and potatoes of the issue seems to lie in the "some proxy of" clause. Is unknowingly using some proxy for race really discrimination though? I'd imagine several things could be used as this proxy to varying degrees, everything from income to criminal history.

> I'd imagine several things could be used as this proxy to varying degrees, everything from income to criminal history But I think you could also make a compelling argument that many of those things are accurate proxies primarily due to the legacy of more overt discrimination, and it would be difficult to impossible to disentangle that.

I would make that argument, but I'd also argue that modern companies shouldn't factor in past injustices, things would get too messy too quickly.

Re: How I legally got scammed for $250 by an upscale apartment complex

#162

Post by PhineasRex »

chrisferry wrote: post #112
ploxiln wrote: post #15

Maybe you've never attempted to rent an apartment in NYC. They typically require * scanned ID * recent bank statements * recent pay stubs * recent tax return or W2 * letter of employment on official company letterhead * company office number they can call to confirm employment * last two addresses you lived at * letter from previous landlord * yearly salary at least 40x (sometimes 50x) monthly rent * ~ $100 applicati…

I've never had to scan ID or provide a previous landlord letter for a NYC rental. Also there's usually no app fee just a $50 credit check. But all the other bullet points ring true. I've also lived in trendier Brooklyn neighborhoods where the competition is high. You must be prepared with a cashiers check for a down payment. Shit goes quick here.

I live in NYC and likewise have never had to scan my ID. Scanning my ID would seem really odd to me if a landlord ever asked for it.

Re: How I legally got scammed for $250 by an upscale apartment complex

#163

Post by debacle »

metaphorm wrote: post #159
debacle wrote: post #62

CoreLogic is not to blame here. They are a massive company. They would not be scamming renters out of such small amounts.

I think you should explain your reasoning in more detail here. Why is a "massive company" less likely to commit financial fraud? If they do it at a large scale, they make lots of money from it. Or perhaps it is a scam being run just by this one office and not a company-wide policy. Even if that is the case, CoreLogic is still to blame, they are responsible for their leasing offices.

Do you know who CoreLogic is? They're a data aggregation company. They take available data and generate statistically actionable reports. They didn't gain anything from the fraud that took place here, besides that a report was generated from the potential lease.

CoreLogic doesn't have leasing offices. I don't know if you read the article. That statement is incredibly ignorant.

Re: How I legally got scammed for $250 by an upscale apartment complex

#164

Post by lawnchair_larry »

rhexs wrote: post #117
lawnchair_larry wrote: post #9

Any company like this is going to scam you at move out time as well. One agent told me that nobody gets their full deposit back, ever. They'll make up a list of things they had to do and give you an inflated bill for it.

This is easy to get around. Take pictures of the apartment at move-in. Read the lease to discover standard cleaning fees before signing. Take care of the apartment. Walk through the apartment with the Landlord on move-out. If they fraudulently deduct as part of some sort of profit-center, discover the wonderful world of small claims court. Not going to be fun but you'll win.

That is not easy. It's possible to avoid, not easy. As soon as small claims is involved, there is already considerable hassle.

Re: How I legally got scammed for $250 by an upscale apartment complex

#165

Post by azakai »

swang wrote: post #142
azakai wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every apartment complex I've looked at (bay area) has required me to leave my photo ID with them at the leasing office while one of them took me on a tour to show me the apartment.

Is this condominiums/highrises? When I was looking for my apartment here no one ever asked for that. But I also didn't really look at places that had a leasing office either.

Not necessarily in a high-rise. Basically a building or bunch of buildings with apartments that a single company owns and maintains and rents out. They tend to have a leasing office.

Re: How I legally got scammed for $250 by an upscale apartment complex

#166

Post by Symbiote »

pjc50 wrote: post #96
4ad wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a non-American living in Western Europe the idea of a landlord doing a "background check" on prospective tenants is terrifying. Never heard of such a thing in Europe. What the hell does "background check" even entail.

Unfortunately in the UK landlords are obliged to perform immigration checks: https://www.gov.uk/check-tenant-right-to-rent-documents/who-... Most European countries have mandatory ID / residence registration so this is handled directly by the state rather than making landlords do it. (Whether the UK counts as "Europe" is a subject of extreme controversy)

That rule in the UK is very new, and also controversial.

Re: How I legally got scammed for $250 by an upscale apartment complex

#167

Post by abeyer »

flukus wrote: post #161
abeyer wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd imagine several things could be used as this proxy to varying degrees, everything from income to criminal history But I think you could also make a compelling argument that many of those things are accurate proxies primarily due to the legacy of more overt discrimination, and it would be difficult to impossible to disentangle that.

I would make that argument, but I'd also argue that modern companies shouldn't factor in past injustices, things would get too messy too quickly.

Life is messy. I think there's a fine line, but still a difference, between factoring in past injustices and factoring in current negative conditions that resulted from past injustices. Throwing your hands up and saying "it's too hard" seems a bit of a cop out for the latter.

Re: How I legally got scammed for $250 by an upscale apartment complex

#168

Post by nassir »

baddox wrote: post #37
nassir wrote: post #26

I faced a relatively similar situation when trying to rent in the East Bay. My wife and I both have 720+ credit scores as were looking to rent in the $2500 range. After going through applications at 3 places and getting rejected, I realized something was off. Our credit scores had been run multiple times and we had paid application processing fees at multiple places yet we were getting rejected. Perhaps the applicant…

Which town in the East Bay, if you don't mind me asking?

Fremont

Re: How I legally got scammed for $250 by an upscale apartment complex

#169

Post by nassir »

tedmiston wrote: post #74
nassir wrote: post #26

I faced a relatively similar situation when trying to rent in the East Bay. My wife and I both have 720+ credit scores as were looking to rent in the $2500 range. After going through applications at 3 places and getting rejected, I realized something was off. Our credit scores had been run multiple times and we had paid application processing fees at multiple places yet we were getting rejected. Perhaps the applicant…

> After going through applications at 3 places and getting rejected, I realized something was off. So did you investigate what that something is? (Unclear to me)

That something could be:- - Too many good applicants with better credentials (I doubt this part) - Landlords pocketing fees from as many applicants as possible. - The tenant is now a commodity, unlike 7 years ago.. There are no regulations protecting potential tenants - Something like a single standard application that could be used across potential rental properties would be helpful - Subjectivity of the landlord. I sense landlords figure that there are certain types that will stay in the property longer and will keep the property in order. People with kids are seen as a red flag sometimes, and single people miht not stay in one place too long. And I can guarantee there are some unspoken racial considerations in there.

Anyways, I do suggest people get a credit monitoring app like credit karma and negotiate with a landlord to use that if possible.

Re: How I legally got scammed for $250 by an upscale apartment complex

#170

Post by nassir »

tedmiston wrote: post #74
nassir wrote: post #26

I faced a relatively similar situation when trying to rent in the East Bay. My wife and I both have 720+ credit scores as were looking to rent in the $2500 range. After going through applications at 3 places and getting rejected, I realized something was off. Our credit scores had been run multiple times and we had paid application processing fees at multiple places yet we were getting rejected. Perhaps the applicant…

> After going through applications at 3 places and getting rejected, I realized something was off. So did you investigate what that something is? (Unclear to me)

That something could be:- - Too many good applicants with better credentials (I doubt this part) - Landlords pocketing fees from as many applicants as possible. - The tenant is now a commodity, unlike 7 years ago.. There are no regulations protecting potential tenants - Something like a single standard application that could be used across potential rental properties would be helpful - Subjectivity of the landlord. I sense landlords figure that there are certain types that will stay in the property longer and will keep the property in order. People with kids are seen as a red flag sometimes, and single people miht not stay in one place too long. And I can guarantee there are some unspoken racial considerations in there.

Anyways, I do suggest people get a credit monitoring app like credit karma and negotiate with a landlord to use that if possible.

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