They Used To Last 50 Years • Hacker News Board

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#161

Post by pingec » Mon, Mar 20, 2017, 1:24 AM UTC

Something should be said about repairability. Seems like manufacturers are purposely trying to make appliances unrepairable. For example recently a temperature sensor (cost USD 1$) failed in my fridge-freezer in the freezer compartment. Electrolux does not provide a way to replace it nor instructions on locating this faulty sensor so the repairs guy just tells you to replace the appliance [1] because a 1 dollar sensor failed, can you imagine? Shame on them!

[1] http://pingec.si/blog/articles/fixing-a-faulty-freezer-senso...

On the other hand I have a 30 years old washing machine which is rust-free and it simply just works. I am not sure I would ever want to replace it.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#162

Post by user5994461 » Mon, Mar 20, 2017, 1:28 AM UTC

JustSomeNobody wrote: post #155

Good luck finding modern electronic parts that will be supported for 50 years. Also, seriously, you see so many people scoffing at the idea of supporting anything for any length of time. It is just the engineering mentality now-a-days; nobody wants to work on anything "old". Can you imagine trying to hire someone to maintain the software/electronics for appliances in 5 years much less 50?

You'll have no problem recruiting the people over 30 who are not interested in the ever changing web dev.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#163

Post by sokoloff » Mon, Mar 20, 2017, 1:28 AM UTC

emodendroket wrote: post #121

jasonkostempski wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OMG, the "features". My stove is relatively simple except for 1 part, the one that sets the oven temperature (and the time, but who the hell needs a third clock in their kitchen). That part is a 300 dollar, proprietary circuit board. Of course it's the first thing to go. I'm sure the board doesn't cost the maker anywhere near $300 but I'm sure it's a lot more than an industry standard knob. If they want to cut a few…

I don't know about that particular example, but refrigerators with ice makers are an obvious case of people buying appliances way more likely to break down.

Yes, but I replaced my ice maker for $36 and about 30 minutes of my time (10 minutes to figure out what to order; 20 minutes to put it in).

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002GZND6U

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#164

Post by ronnier » Mon, Mar 20, 2017, 1:28 AM UTC

Of the list I didn't see any Japanese brands... and I guess it makes since because I don't see many Japanese washers, refrigerators, etc outside of Japan. The ones I bought while living in Japan seemed good and of high quality... I had no issues with them. I wonder why they aren't sold outside of Japan?

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#165

Post by colhom » Mon, Mar 20, 2017, 1:29 AM UTC

M_Grey wrote: post #111

psadauskas wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The only explanation..."? What about "never attribute to malice..." and Occam's Razor. I think a more likely explanation is that in the majority of cases when shopping for an appliance and your choices are a $1500 one and a $2000 one, you buy the cheaper one. This forces manufacturers to compete on price, and to cut costs wherever possible to remain profitable. Additionally, I just spent 30 seconds googling and a wa…

Well that, and a home appliance doesn't cost 1/7th of your annual budget anymore. Some things were built to last because to justify the expense, they had to last. James May (unusually) made a very good point that the "good old days" is an illusion created by survivorship bias, nostalgia, and failure to understand economics. The survivorship bias especially should be obvious: Lots of cheap crap was made throughout the…

Speaking of James May and manufactured items of yore vs today, he recently did a series where he puts together a bunch of old stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=james+may+reass...

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#166

Post by user5994461 » Mon, Mar 20, 2017, 1:30 AM UTC

lacampbell wrote: post #91

MichaelBurge wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Around 40%[1] of the population rents, which means 40% doesn't make the purchasing decision for many appliances. We can sanity-check your argument with this: That reasoning should predict no change in the quality of commercial appliances used in apartment complexes and laundromats, since these customers are used to making spreadsheets with a capital expenditures budget that they pay into for 30 years. [1] http://www.…

Around 40%[1] of the population rents, which means 40% doesn't make the purchasing decision for many appliances. Do all rental properties come with appliances in the US? Here in NZ that's the exception rather than the rule.

USA is notorious for having fully equipped kitchens.

In Europe it varies by country. From the same, to having only a bare sink with a tube for the gaz.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#167

Post by grogenaut » Mon, Mar 20, 2017, 1:30 AM UTC

throwawaysbdi wrote: post #76

lordnacho wrote: post #45

He mentions it in the article: It's a failure of feedback that makes this happen. If people can't get reliable information about quality, quality will not determine what they buy. Price will, and price is readily available. To get price down, you need costs down. To do that, you replace the parts with crappy parts. If feedback worked, people would know they were paying less for a less good appliance that will have mo…

Along the same lines, probably the easiest way to get quality in almost every type of product is to buy the commercial version. The people using these products are very familiar with them, so nobody sells garbage. Businesses are also generally more conservative in future projections and less price sensitive than consumers. I personally started doing this a few years ago. I even have a throwaway LLC that sounds nebulo…

What's a good one of these marketplaces?

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#168

Post by CarVac » Mon, Mar 20, 2017, 1:31 AM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #64

steffan wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the reasons for the limited life would be the longevity of the actual heat exchanger - they will eventually corrode due to the corrosive nature of the exhaust gases passing through them. Additionally, the manufacturer probably doesn't want to have to stock parts for 16+ year old models. An analog would be software; nothing stops a circa-1994 Windows NT machine from continuing to work, but good luck getting sup…

> corrode Corrosion is unlikely to cause any problem with the heat exchanger unless it is really severe, as there are no moving parts in it. > nothing stops a circa-1994 Windows NT machine from continuing to work My older machines of that era have all failed due (most likely) to failed capacitors. The disk drives fail most likely due to lubrication issues. The semiconductors fail because all semiconductors fail due t…

Newer high-efficiency heat exchangers are much thinner than they were in the past, and failure there means carbon monoxide poisoning.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#169

Post by sk5t » Mon, Mar 20, 2017, 1:31 AM UTC

gcb0 wrote: post #140

psadauskas wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The only explanation..."? What about "never attribute to malice..." and Occam's Razor. I think a more likely explanation is that in the majority of cases when shopping for an appliance and your choices are a $1500 one and a $2000 one, you buy the cheaper one. This forces manufacturers to compete on price, and to cut costs wherever possible to remain profitable. Additionally, I just spent 30 seconds googling and a wa…

don't look any further, I bought a 3k washer and dryer combination from LG 4 years ago. It boasted a ten year warranty! the paint, drum, motor, finish, everything looks like new. But, the controller board burned. I know my way around electronics, mind you, I can see exactly what is wrong (burned transformer), but the whole board is covered in some gelatin that makes any repair impossible. the power input board is als…

Relying on an LG appliance warranty is an invitation to heartbreak...

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#170

Post by M_Grey » Mon, Mar 20, 2017, 1:31 AM UTC

colhom wrote: post #165

M_Grey wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well that, and a home appliance doesn't cost 1/7th of your annual budget anymore. Some things were built to last because to justify the expense, they had to last. James May (unusually) made a very good point that the "good old days" is an illusion created by survivorship bias, nostalgia, and failure to understand economics. The survivorship bias especially should be obvious: Lots of cheap crap was made throughout the…

Speaking of James May and manufactured items of yore vs today, he recently did a series where he puts together a bunch of old stuff. https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=james+may+reass...

That's actually the series in which he makes the observation I was paraphrasing. I found that show pretty entertaining actually, and oddly satisfying. Edit: I think it might have been the stand mixer episode.

I also strongly recommend the mini-motorcycle episode.