White House rolls back protections for people in default on student loans • Hacker News Board

Re: White House rolls back protections for people in default on student loans

#161

Post by kartan » Sun, Mar 19, 2017, 5:47 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #158

kartan wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There might be a "value" in it but why shouldn't they pay for it? It is called an investment. Society invests in an individual education because in the long run that individual is going to be able to contribute more positively to society, returning a greater value than the initial investment. A better educated society takes better decisions, is more creative, adapts faster to change... Why shouldn't countries inves…

It is called an investment. Society invests in an individual education because in the long run that individual is going to be able to contribute more positively to society My CS education at an unknown state college costed 10-25% of what a liberal arts degree costs from a "prestigious" private college. So why should I pay for people who want a liberal arts degree that is not as valued by society? If we made large stu…

> If we made large student loans harder to get

That's a different discussion. The problems is that the White House is removing protections for the people that already have that big loans. Easy to get loans and harsh penalties for defaulting is the worst of the combinations.

Making student loans harder to get is a good solution to reduce the burden of debt and even to reduce prices. But at the same time it makes education to become a privilege of the wealthy. So it has an important downside.

> So why should I pay for people who want a liberal arts degree that is not as valued by society?

Is not as valued by society or is not as valued in the job market? This are two different things. I can earn more than a doctor thanks to my long experience as software engineer, but I will not jump to the conclusion that I'm more valuable to society than a doctor (or a janitor for example). I have meet too much people with high salaries that do more damage than good to companies to believe that "salary" is a measure of "been valuable".

Re: White House rolls back protections for people in default on student loans

#162

Post by mindslight » Sun, Mar 19, 2017, 6:46 PM UTC

sokoloff wrote: post #155

mindslight wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that is the justification that the private lenders bought the law with. But it doesn't refute my point. From a policy standpoint, if the realities make it impractical for lenders to lend then papering over those incentives is effectively doubling down on a bad idea. Compromising in order to encourage more of something generally results in system feedback consuming the desired change, with the downsides of the co…

What if the realities make it practical and profitable to lend if that debt is not dischargeable, but make it impractical to lend if that debt is dischargeable? In such a case, it seems worth exploring whether society overall and different segments are better or worse off with each policy. I think that's the case we're in, and even though it would likely help me personally and help my kids, I don't want to return to…

The specific realities that I was referring to are that a college education is expensive and expected to be self-funded. While non-discharagability makes it more practical to lend, it does not affect either of those underlying conditions! Instead, it just delays their realization, basically reinventing indentured servitude with college replacing the boat.

Re: White House rolls back protections for people in default on student loans

#163

Post by UpDownLeftRight » Sun, Mar 19, 2017, 6:53 PM UTC

metaobject wrote: post #68

UpDownLeftRight wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't pay student loans. Do you know why? I don't have them. I went to an inexpensive local school, worked while going to school, and took the public bus to and from it. (I was fortunate enough to be able to live with my parents.) While I don't know your situation, it's hard for me to feel sorry for someone who went to an expensive private school, lived on campus in a "country club" atmosphere, and then expects the…

You say you don't know anything about his situation but then you go on to heavily speculate about his situation. I'm in your situation btw. I worked through undergrad and grad school and had my work pay for almost all of my school so I never had any debt. But I realize I was lucky and had a good situation lined up and not everyone has the same opportunities. Some people need more assistance than others, and I don't m…

Right. And you may not mind if 'the government' helps them out, but the people who fund 'the government' might.

Re: White House rolls back protections for people in default on student loans

#164

Post by scarface74 » Mon, Mar 20, 2017, 12:54 AM UTC

kartan wrote: post #161

scarface74 wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is called an investment. Society invests in an individual education because in the long run that individual is going to be able to contribute more positively to society My CS education at an unknown state college costed 10-25% of what a liberal arts degree costs from a "prestigious" private college. So why should I pay for people who want a liberal arts degree that is not as valued by society? If we made large stu…

> If we made large student loans harder to get That's a different discussion. The problems is that the White House is removing protections for the people that already have that big loans. Easy to get loans and harsh penalties for defaulting is the worst of the combinations. Making student loans harder to get is a good solution to reduce the burden of debt and even to reduce prices. But at the same time it makes educa…

At the time I went to the state college I went to. People were paying for school almost completely out of pocket working minimum wage jobs and staying at home with their parents.

A pell grant plus a minimum loan can pay for someone to go to a two year college. In my state, if they work hard enough during the first two years, get a 3.0 GPA they can get their tuition paid at any state college to finish their four year degree.

Of course they can get all four years paid if they did well in high school. But students are still racking up debt to go to private schools and go out of state.