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Enroute Airbus A380 wake flips Challenger business jet upside down

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Re: Enroute Airbus A380 wake flips Challenger business jet upside down

#161

Post by paulajohnson »

andruby wrote: post #118
wfunction wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd think so, but from now on do you think planes are going to stop flying under each other or try to maneuver out of the way when this happens inadvertently? I really wish they do, but that's not the impression I got from the article. All I saw was "ATC all around the globe have recently been instructed to exercise particular care with A380s crossing above other aircraft. The Aviation Herald had already reported a…

Yes. I think that all small aircraft pilots will read/hear about this story. They might even practice the event in simulators. And all of them will avoid passing under a large aircraft at 180 degrees. Source: my father is an airline pilot and they always take the time to learn from severe incidents.

If you are flying in controlled airspace then you fly where ATC tell you, not where you happen to think would be a good idea. If you want to change course for any reason you ask ATC. The only exception would be to avoid an imminent collision.

Re: Enroute Airbus A380 wake flips Challenger business jet upside down

#162

Post by lorenzhs »

tajen wrote: post #149
webignition wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you should absolutely wear a helmet when riding a bicycle at low speeds. Your skull is vulnerable to impacts at speeds that are relatively low compared to full-speed cycling. On a few occasions I've witnessed a cyclist panic and wobble after being passed far too closely by a car traveling far too fast for such a manoeuvre. This has caused such cyclists to wobble, inadvertently clip the curb and mount the pavemen…

Yours are anecdotal evidence of an extremely low risk. There are some bike accidents, which are already rare; Very few involve the head; and even fewer would be saved by a helmet. Whereas, requiring a helmet is a sufficient disincentive to biking that studies have shown that it increases the number of deaths in countries that made it mandatory, by making people drive instead and later die from cardiac diseases and ob…

Please don't turn this into yet another debate on whether making helmet use mandatory is a good idea.

Re: Enroute Airbus A380 wake flips Challenger business jet upside down

#164

Post by lathiat »

wfunction wrote: post #71
M_Grey wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the 1-2 minutes between this thing booming past them, and being sent into a spin... you want them telling people to buckle up? That doesn't seem like the easier solution; it mostly sounds like a way to have people still hurrying in the aisles when it's too late.

Even half a minute minute is a hell of a lot of time and overwhelmingly better than no notice. Currently airplanes sometimes only turn on the sign after the turbulence has already started. Also, it's not like they never have no idea which airplanes are around them until they visually see the airplane. They could turn on the sign earlier if they know earlier.

In my experience (particularly on Emirates) they generally turn the seatbelt sign on before the turbulence because they can generally predict it on radar.

It is a little annoying when you have 20-30 minute seatbelt periods with barely any actual turbulence but there you go.

Re: Enroute Airbus A380 wake flips Challenger business jet upside down

#166

Post by peteretep »

koliber wrote: post #152
peteretep wrote: post #130

> It's an incredible feeling, > lots of fun > Yes, it can be dangerous, > but it's a risk you can > manage yourself Try meth!

This comment thread quickly deteriorated from civil discussion to absurdist comparisons.

I guess I could have said "Just because something is great fun, and you think you're in total control of inherent risks, doesn't mean it's a good idea, or that you're capable of making good risk assessments".

But I'm British, and we communicate in specific ways.

Re: Enroute Airbus A380 wake flips Challenger business jet upside down

#167

Post by ubernostrum »

cr4ig_ wrote: post #46
jacquesm wrote: post #4

The wakes of large aircraft are such that even big passenger planes make sure to keep plenty of separation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Flight_587 Is another example (though pilot error likely made a bad situation worse in that particular incident).

I was looking at FlightRadar24 and listening to ATC while an A380 took off from Dulles near DC. Not only did they warn for wake turbulence when the plane was already well away, they held other aircraft for a runway inspection after the plane took off. I'd imagine that kind of wake could kick up some significant debris on the ground as well.

Another point related to its size: the 747 has thrust reversers on all four engines. The A380 only has them on the two innermost engines, because the wingspan is so wide those engines aren't always over the runway and have a higher chance of kicking up debris with reverse thrust.

Re: Enroute Airbus A380 wake flips Challenger business jet upside down

#168

Post by ubernostrum »

dorfsmay wrote: post #21
paulannesley wrote: post #8

> one thousand feet above Are the imperial units of measurement an aviation thing, or an American thing, or a bit of both?

In aviation, altitudes are in feet, distances in nautical miles, speed in knots (nautical miles per hour).

To be fair:

1. The nautical mile is an SI derived unit, now fixed at 1852 meters.

2. It's a more useful unit than the kilometer for long-distance navigation due to its historical definition in terms of arc along a line of latitude making it easy to work with on charts.

Re: Enroute Airbus A380 wake flips Challenger business jet upside down

#169

Post by tempestn »

ajdlinux wrote: post #116
ghshephard wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using that philosophy, then anyone riding a bicycle, even if they aren't going at high-speed on road, should wear a helmet "just in case" there is an accident to protect their skull? There is a balance between annoyance and utility. I personally have no problem wearing a belt for the entire flight, including while sleeping. But I'm not to dismayed by those who leave it off, walk around the cabin, go hang out near the…

That happens to be the justification that my country uses to make bicycle helmets mandatory (though there's significant debate about whether it's actually helped reduce injury rates, and it fairly clearly depresses overall rates of cycling versus other modes of transport). I think the cost of wearing an aircraft seatbelt while you happen to be seated is rather lower than the cost of having to wear a bicycle helmet, t…

What's the cost? Helmets aren't that expensive. Having to carry it around? Could always lock it to the bike. Helmet hair?

Re: Enroute Airbus A380 wake flips Challenger business jet upside down

#170

Post by Moru »

ptaipale wrote: post #146
_ph_ wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the bicycle helmet comparison is valid here - one big point is, that the typical bicycle helmets are not protecting your head well, you would need a motorcycle helmet for good protection. I don't think one needs to be confined to the seat for the whole flight duration, but when sitting down, there is no good reason not to wear a belt either.

Bicycle helmets are a compromise of course; a heavier helmet would give better protection but would be very cumbersome. But even light helmets give a lot of protection against very simple, silly accidents, like not noticing a bump on the road, or failing to unclip when slowing down.

And there are ofcourse better or worse bicycle helmets around. And the way you wear them is also important. I have helped a large number of kids around my block put them on correctly after seeing them mostly hanging on the back because the parents don't know how to set the length and angle of the strap...
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