Microsoft Pledges to Use ARM Server Chips, Threatening Intel's Dominance • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft Pledges to Use ARM Server Chips, Threatening Intel's Dominance

#161

Post by justin66 » Wed, Mar 08, 2017, 10:27 PM UTC

AlphaSite wrote: post #156

justin66 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A good point, but their repos are so eccentric because Debian refused to support the RPi's older ARM architecture and the RPi community had to roll their own. That speaks to the original point of this subthread, I believe. Not only does Linux not offer the "exact same experience across the board," it cannot even do it for the ARM architecture. For decent enough reasons, really, when you think about it.

Isn't that more a case of no support promised, none given. Rather than support promised but falling short.

It's close to two decades now but I don't recall Microsoft promising that all the NT architectures would offer the exact same experience. It would have been silly then, and it would be doubly silly now that plenty of the stuff in Windows is legacy cruft.

Re: Microsoft Pledges to Use ARM Server Chips, Threatening Intel's Dominance

#162

Post by david-cako » Wed, Mar 08, 2017, 10:37 PM UTC

imglorp wrote: post #35

This could well be a negotiating strategy to rejigger the relationship with Intel. Dell did exactly the same thing a number of times for similar reasons. So all you do is: put out some press releases, ramp up some hires, put out some glossy product roadmaps. Intel starts to get separation anxiety and flinches: well, maybe they can afford to come closer to AMD prices for another year. They kiss up and you back out of…

Reminds me of how media conglomerates fuck with the satellite/cable companies.

Re: Microsoft Pledges to Use ARM Server Chips, Threatening Intel's Dominance

#163

Post by eikenberry » Wed, Mar 08, 2017, 10:39 PM UTC

vlunkr wrote: post #52

the-dude wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, just like governments threaten to use Linux to rejigger MS.

I've heard similar theories about SteamOS. That it was a threat to Microsoft since they had just released their own store on Windows 8 that competed with Steam. I'm inclined to believe it since Valve seems to not care about it much anymore.

This is still a very real threat.

https://mspoweruser.com/microsoft-just-added-the-best-way-of...

https://www.engadget.com/2017/02/28/windows-10-will-soon-blo...

Re: Microsoft Pledges to Use ARM Server Chips, Threatening Intel's Dominance

#164

Post by gigatexal » Wed, Mar 08, 2017, 10:45 PM UTC

hollerith wrote: post #47

gigatexal wrote: post #45

This is awesome: with a renewed AMD and now ARM gaining another big proponent (Apple being the first imo) there might finally be some real competition to Intel's place at the top.

Samsung and Qualcomm aren't big proponents of ARM?

Sammy and Qualcomm are big players yes I was just speaking regarding North American mindshare which is a misgiving. Though there is something to be said about the absolutely stellar single threaded perf of the Apple designs. Not to mention their GPUs

Re: Microsoft Pledges to Use ARM Server Chips, Threatening Intel's Dominance

#165

Post by pjmlp » Wed, Mar 08, 2017, 10:51 PM UTC

andreiw wrote: post #145

pjmlp wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AMD managed to produce x64 thanks to the licenses they had from Intel, otherwise this laptop would be powered by an IA64 processor.

No, it wouldn't. Sometimes I wonder if IA-64 was just an exercise in killing of Alpha and HP-PA... Anyway, x64 succeeded because instead of producing something no one asked for, and poorly (IA-64), AMD went to Microsoft, found out what they wanted from a 64-bit chip, and built that .

Sure it would.

If Intel had transitioned their processor line to IA64, without AMD to defy their roadmap, do you really believe consumer desktops would magically start using other vendor processors?

> AMD went to Microsoft, found out what they wanted from a 64-bit chip, and built that.

Because they still had the cross-license deal with Intel that allowed them to legally build x86 clones.

No x86 licenses, no x64.

Re: Microsoft Pledges to Use ARM Server Chips, Threatening Intel's Dominance

#166

Post by Neeek » Wed, Mar 08, 2017, 10:53 PM UTC

reitanqild wrote: post #95

bisby wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a ton of major issues have been recently fixed. It doesn't seem to be on the back burner at all, it's just that building/updating an entire OS is a bit different from building/updating just steam. Also, a lot of fixes are edge cases that most people don't view as fixes, because it was never an issue for them. Most of the issue revolves around GPU drivers, which in theory valve is not responsible for, but they have hi…

linux as a primary gaming platform works just fine for me, thanks to valve. Confirmed by a happy occasional CS:GO player here.

Yeah, I have another comment from a different thread saying the same thing I'm about to, but the amount of linux compatible steam games has really exploded since the original Steam OS announcements. I think it's almost at half the top 100 most played games in Steam, but last I checked more than half of my steam library was playable on ubuntu at least.

Re: Microsoft Pledges to Use ARM Server Chips, Threatening Intel's Dominance

#167

Post by redtuesday » Wed, Mar 08, 2017, 11:10 PM UTC

amd naples will also be used: http://www.marketwired.com/press-release/amd-collaborates-wi...

Re: Microsoft Pledges to Use ARM Server Chips, Threatening Intel's Dominance

#168

Post by Spooky23 » Wed, Mar 08, 2017, 11:20 PM UTC

imglorp wrote: post #35

This could well be a negotiating strategy to rejigger the relationship with Intel. Dell did exactly the same thing a number of times for similar reasons. So all you do is: put out some press releases, ramp up some hires, put out some glossy product roadmaps. Intel starts to get separation anxiety and flinches: well, maybe they can afford to come closer to AMD prices for another year. They kiss up and you back out of…

It could be, but vendors tend to have epiphanies when they eat their dog food.

Microsoft and Exchange was a great example. Doing things like running big mailboxes, having HA services, and doing discovery were ridiculous hacks until Exchange Online came around and subjected them to the pain.

Similarly, I'm sure Microsoft has plenty of idle servers sitting around doing very little that could easily be running more effectively on ARM.

Intel has improved power management, but their low-end chips suck.

Re: Microsoft Pledges to Use ARM Server Chips, Threatening Intel's Dominance

#169

Post by justin66 » Wed, Mar 08, 2017, 11:27 PM UTC

rleigh wrote: post #159

justin66 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A good point, but their repos are so eccentric because Debian refused to support the RPi's older ARM architecture and the RPi community had to roll their own. That speaks to the original point of this subthread, I believe. Not only does Linux not offer the "exact same experience across the board," it cannot even do it for the ARM architecture. For decent enough reasons, really, when you think about it.

Different versions of the ARM architecture with different ABIs. From the Debian POV that's a separate architecture to support. It could have been done by Debian, but was done by a third party, just as other minor platforms are supported. I don't agree that it has a "different experience" because the tools and infrastructure are there to build the entire distribution from scratch. And this was done. I've done it mysel…

Yeah, it sounds like we're talking more about the difference between the limitations of open source and closed source than any particular failure on Microsoft's part to meet the expectations of its customers.

I don't think they're going to really square the circle in the way linux can, having everything available because everything is open source. On the other hand, it's not inconceivable they could end up with a server platform that does offer an awful lot of Microsoft stuff as open source, which also makes available all the linux userland stuff you'd want to have. Their handicap might be that not enough of their infrastructure software has made it to .net yet, but they've shown lately that they're willing to do some porting when it's appropriate. (Sql server!)

Re: Microsoft Pledges to Use ARM Server Chips, Threatening Intel's Dominance

#170

Post by Spooky23 » Wed, Mar 08, 2017, 11:40 PM UTC

Twirrim wrote: post #96

imglorp wrote: post #35

This could well be a negotiating strategy to rejigger the relationship with Intel. Dell did exactly the same thing a number of times for similar reasons. So all you do is: put out some press releases, ramp up some hires, put out some glossy product roadmaps. Intel starts to get separation anxiety and flinches: well, maybe they can afford to come closer to AMD prices for another year. They kiss up and you back out of…

Dell did this for ages with AMD chips. Same time every year you'd see an article go across all the magazines about Dell planning to introduce AMD chips to their servers, and just as quickly vanish once Dell had finished negotiating with Intel.

You can do this with a moderate sized enterprise. Engage HP/Dell or a strong VAR. Get them on the hook and focus on Intel E7 (and SQL Server enterprise if you are an MS shop).

Then get meeting scheduled with IBM and Oracle. Talk to the VAR or OEM guy in your office with your POWER mug poorly hidden. Start asking questions about TPC benchmarks and error correction. Ask if you can pay for cores only when you need peak capacity.

Intel will provide them with marketing support, potentially very significant if they care about you. Microsoft will also bend over backwards for an Oracle compete opportunity.