In praise of cash • Hacker News Board

Re: In praise of cash

#161

Post by jk563 » Fri, Mar 03, 2017, 7:29 PM UTC

mrec wrote: post #124

mercer wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well yes, but surely that's something that cash does even better, isn't it? [...] > Agree re credit cards, but I never carry a balance, they're just a payment mechanism. I think you just answered your own question. For most people here (Holland), a credit card is not a 'default' (and so many people don't even have one). We still use our debit card all the time because it's so much more convenient as payment method…

We (UK) have had self-checkout tills for a few years too, but they still take cash as well as debit card. Maybe I'm just old, but I don't want payment to be too frictionless. Cash still strikes the right balance for me; convenient enough that I don't get annoyed by it, not so convenient that I lose track of what I'm spending.

Whereas I get annoyed by it and lose track of how much I'm spending when I use it!

Re: In praise of cash

#162

Post by baccredited » Fri, Mar 03, 2017, 7:29 PM UTC

sparrish wrote: post #13

After having my card skimmed for the 4th time (at a gas station pump, at checkout at grocery store, etc), I decided to pay for everything with cash. It's not worth the hours it takes to clear up things with the bank and I get a better understanding of where my money is being spent when my wallet gets light.

I get roughly 2% back on every credit card transaction. For me, worth the hassle of occasional identity theft I'm not liable for.

Re: In praise of cash

#163

Post by pavel_lishin » Fri, Mar 03, 2017, 7:31 PM UTC

r00fus wrote: post #115

M_Grey wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A cashless society would be an attempt to create a society that lacks basic economic freedom, but it would also fail. People will simply return to barter, and the use of whatever precious metals/stones/etc are hot that year.

I question the assumption that this would fail outright. It would likely result in a hybrid visible/invisible transactions. Look at how the underground economy of drugs uses commodities like detergent [1]. This would just take that economy to the next level. Clearly to prevent currency from failing outright, going cashless would likely result in the ban (effective or not) of cryptocurrencies and the like. [1] http://…

I thought detergent was used as a standard barter chip because it's easier to steal detergent than it is to steal cash.

Re: In praise of cash

#164

Post by anigbrowl » Fri, Mar 03, 2017, 7:31 PM UTC

matthewmacleod wrote: post #79

seibelj wrote: post #11

I would never support getting rid of cash, it's a basic right to spend money without being tracked.

it's a basic right to spend money without being tracked. No it's not. I very much want there to be a way to spend money anonymously, but I can't frame that as a 'basic right'.

Do you mean, within an existing legal framework? Then yeah, but clearly our existing legal frameworks are failing in important ways so start thinking about what rights you actually want rather than what you think you can get.

Re: In praise of cash

#165

Post by jk563 » Fri, Mar 03, 2017, 7:32 PM UTC

eric_the_read wrote: post #123

jk563 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worth pointing out that this can be fuzzy, I have a £1600 overdraft facility that I can use with my debit card (I don't use it though).

True enough, but I hate those things. They tend to incur nasty fees when used on top of the overdraft itself, and then there's interest to be paid on the overdraft amount if not paid in full, etc., etc. If allowed, I will always disable them, and when not allowed, I will change banks to one that will allow it.

I agree with the sentiment, though I'd argue they're getting better. For example the Nationwide FlexDirect current account[0] comes with a £1,200 overdraft limit that gets charged at 50p per day it's used. A vast improvement in my mind, I remember getting charged around £30 for going £2 overdrawn for less than 2 hours!

[0] http://www.nationwide.co.uk/products/current-accounts/our-cu...

Re: In praise of cash

#166

Post by wyldfire » Fri, Mar 03, 2017, 7:32 PM UTC

teod wrote: post #105

Retric wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The economics of bitcoin and all alt coins mean some company will have the most efficient solution long term and thus mine far more than 51%. And once someone can mine 80+% of a block chain they can do what they want with it. PS: Add up the Chinese pools and one country effectively already controls bitcoin.

For those out of the loop, miners work together in pools to combine their mining power. With more mining power, the more likely it is for them to mine a block (of the blockchain) and divide its payout among members of the pool. Pools cause centralization of mining power. You can see a list of pools and the percentage of their mining power at [ https://blockchain.info/pools ]. Looking at the chart, you can see that th…

A Sybil attack is unrelated to consensus, but otherwise what you said is accurate.

A Sybil attack can occur when a system designer mistakes a system identity to be exclusive with other ones. e.g. you could create a website that used a phone number as a user identifier and give every new user a $5 signup bonus. But if someone found a way to create valid phone numbers for less than $5 each, they could exploit your new user bonus system.

If it's free/cheap/easy to create new identities, you must be careful how much weight to give those identities. e.g. reddit has some problems related to how easy it is to manipulate voting. They have probably made changes to their algorithm over the years to deweight new/unverified users and likely other clever things to detect voting rings.

Re: In praise of cash

#167

Post by giardini » Fri, Mar 03, 2017, 7:35 PM UTC

ghaff wrote: post #14

CPLX wrote: post #9

The core concept to remember I think is that there are two ways to pay for things: * Ways that involve cash or cash equivalents * Ways where a purchase requires the permission of someone else Just think of the word authorization, which is a required element of essentially all non-cash transactions. It has the word authority embedded right in it. If you're OK with that concept, you are necessarily OK with the idea tha…

I can go weeks without touching cash these days. Nonetheless, I find the idea that I could be prevented from making a person-to-person financial transaction for even a modest amount without a paper trail pretty unsettling.

Last year I tired of reconciling my credit card and checkbook accounts, so shifted to using cash only (I have credit cards if there's an emergency). So far I'm spending ~10% less each month. I'm more careful about purchases. I get and seek cash discounts. Best of all I don't need to do the reconciliation.

Re: In praise of cash

#168

Post by Jemmeh » Fri, Mar 03, 2017, 7:36 PM UTC

huffmsa wrote: post #121

ghaff wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can go weeks without touching cash these days. Nonetheless, I find the idea that I could be prevented from making a person-to-person financial transaction for even a modest amount without a paper trail pretty unsettling.

Paper trail? What are you hiding citizen? Nothing to hide, nothing to fear.

"Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -Edward Snowden

Re: In praise of cash

#169

Post by coldpie » Fri, Mar 03, 2017, 7:39 PM UTC

oculusthrift wrote: post #158

I've never used cash regularly in my life. I hate carrying extra stuff around, so just have one of those card holders attached to my phone. I feel like older people are ingrained with cash, but it hasn't come into my life at all. College kids these days even use Venmo to buy drugs. Of course I know I'm subjecting myself to tracking which is somewhat scary but I guess the convenience has outweighed that for me.

You're also sending a 3-5% tithe to the payment processor (credit card company, bank, electronic payment provider) with every transaction instead of giving that money directly to the service provider.

Re: In praise of cash

#170

Post by jliptzin » Fri, Mar 03, 2017, 7:43 PM UTC

beambot wrote: post #68

jliptzin wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bulk of that transaction fee gets rebated back to the consumer as points, cash back, etc. I only use 2% cash back cards.

So anyone who isn't creditworthy (ie. poor) pays additional tax in the form of higher-priced goods. But to heck with them for being poor, right, because you get the convenience and cash back?

I was just pointing out that the 1-3% isn't fully eaten by the credit card intermediaries. I do agree with you that it does pass on a tax to the consumer, and it would be better to just charge a 0.2% fee (or whatever the actual cost of credit card processing is) without the points, rather than take 2.5% from everyone and then give the bulk back to whomever you deem "creditworthy"