The Black Technologist Who Invented the First Internet Search Engine • Hacker News Board

Re: The Black Technologist Who Invented the First Internet Search Engine

#161

Post by libertymcateer » Fri, Feb 24, 2017, 3:41 PM UTC

tomp wrote: post #154

libertymcateer wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The (now deleted) comment said: > I understand the sentiment, but I also understand that if you truly want to get rid of racial bias, gender bias, whatever else bias completely, then not paying it mention in any sphere is how you get there. I do not see how that is open to interpretation and it appears to run entirely contrary to your point.

That is correct. There are black people who are very privileged (e.g. Obama) and white people who are very unprivileged (e.g. the homeless). So focusing on race will inevitable lead to bosting outcomes of some privileged people and ignoring other non-privileged people. A better way to solve this problem would be to focus on people from disadvantaged backgrounds (== poor), regardless of race.

No, it is not correct. The problem, as above, is not just the socioeconomic background of an individual - it is about whether the power structures in society are, themselves, full of people who bear animus toward unimportant birth-characteristics of certain people - not merit characteristics, not moral characteristics, not regarding intelligence or achievement, but simply being born to parents of a certain ethnic or religious heritage.

The playing field is not level. I truly do not know why this point is so hard to communicate.

You can be the wealthiest, smartest black man alive - you are never going to be a grand dragon in the KKK. That should be quite obvious.

Now back down from that hyperbolic example - what about being a black man in the Mormon Clergy? That was impossible until very recently.

Now what about being a black man as a corporate CEO? Definitely doable. There have been 14 such individuals in the history of the Fortune 500: http://fortune.com/2017/01/16/black-women-fortune-500/ # But it may be less doable depending on the organization. Don't you see there is a continuum here? That the qualifications of the individual, including their privilege, are irrelevant when the ladder that individual is trying to climb has a "no [characteristic] need apply" sign at the third or fourth rung? Why is this so hard to understand?

# Note that this is a pretty low number.

Re: The Black Technologist Who Invented the First Internet Search Engine

#162

Post by kristianc » Fri, Feb 24, 2017, 8:49 PM UTC

tomp wrote: post #160

kristianc wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> After a (semi-)black president, is this really still relevant?! When the current President has committed to rolling back much of what said President achieved socially, economically and culturally, it's fair to say that Obama being elected wasn't the panacea people thought it would be. > Maybe because Oxford is in England and England is predominantly white? The number is off then by two orders of magnitude - and the…

Interesting article. However, I wonder what's really causing the difference in achievement - at first, it would seem that just skin color doesn't explain it, as Indians (also darker-skinned) outperform even whites (according to the article). In theory it's possible that they're being discriminated against (in a racist way) but they outperform despite that, though I've never seen any study that would suggest such gene…

There's an attainment gap. It's definitely not genetic. It is partly cultural, and involves for instance the lack of positive black role models, visible success stories, the idea that succeeding is a 'white' thing to do.

One black guy being elected President doesn't solve that - you need to see examples of black guys as doctors, lawyers, computer scientists, engineers for it to work. Studies have shown that one of the greatest predictors of whether someone goes on to do a certain career is whether they or their family knows anyone in that profession.

That's why it's important and not 'racist' to proactively point out examples of successful black people. It's not that there aren't successful white people as well - they're visible everywhere, and we recognize them anyway (ever see the Oscars?). We do it because sadly the status quo leaves some people without black role models.

Re: The Black Technologist Who Invented the First Internet Search Engine

#163

Post by zyx321 » Fri, Feb 24, 2017, 10:12 PM UTC

tomp wrote: post #152

zyx321 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention that (as of 2016) Black People don't even exist any more. Everyone who previously was "Black" is now "of Color". A Black Technologist is an expert in Black (=incomprehensible to laypeople) Technology. Since we're talking about search engines, I figure that's accurate enough.

That's as silly redefinition of language. And racist as well - unless white people are also "people of color" (technically, we're not white, but yellow-pink or something).

Sorry. I'm being overly cynical.

But it seems that "people of color" is the hot new Politically Correct term for black people (or non-white people depending on who you ask). Do not ask me why.

Re: The Black Technologist Who Invented the First Internet Search Engine

#164

Post by weberc2 » Mon, Feb 27, 2017, 6:19 PM UTC

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #88

weberc2 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In any case, I don't know anyone who would consider this man to be black. Perhaps it's the lighting or angle of the photo?

Well, like I said. Black is a race, not necessarily a skin tone but mostly identified as a complex and arbitrary delineation of class, nationality, ethnicity, and general skin tone as the easiest identifier but not necessarily the qualifier. I have a white friend who's tan as hell, and studied under a woman from South Africa who was about as tan as my friend. The woman was considered a black woman, while my friend wa…

I wasn't speaking about skin tone, but also physical features indicative of African descent. At any rate, in the United States (which is the context of the holiday), class, nationality, and ethnicity don't contribute to perceptions of race; it's effectively the presence or absence of indigenous African physical traits, skin-tone being but one example. Perhaps class, nationality, and ethnicity could be used in 'tie-breaker' cases where race isn't visibly apparent, but that's the extent.

Re: The Black Technologist Who Invented the First Internet Search Engine

#165

Post by weberc2 » Mon, Feb 27, 2017, 6:31 PM UTC

pessimizer wrote: post #38

weberc2 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In any case, I don't know anyone who would consider this man to be black. Perhaps it's the lighting or angle of the photo?

Is who you know relevant?

Yes, because it's a sample of human racial perceptions, but at any rate "who I know" isn't the sample I quoted, it was "who I know of", and the latter is a larger sample than the former. Further, "who I know of" is a pretty good informal indicator given that I know of mostly Americans (and a particularly diverse group of Americans at that). Perhaps you mean "is this sample statistically significant?", in which case the answer is "No, and I never pretended otherwise".